WHR General Discussion.

I'm off there soon - having sampled the garratts at Sandstone, it will be an interesting comparison. I need to plan it so that I get no 87 though.

 

"Welsh Highland Railway Services 2010

The opening of the final section of the Welsh Highland Railway through Porthmadog has been held up by a dispute with the North Wales Trunk Road Authority, who so far have declined to reimburse the Ffestiniog Railway for work carried out on their behalf on the river wall retaining the Glaslyn at Britannia Bridge. The moneys due to be reimbursed will contribute towards signalling and other commissioning work. While there has been some progress with this dispute, we do not now expect it to be concluded in time for the funds to be released and all the work then carried out before the 2010 season.

As a result, we are planning for services in 2010 to follow the pattern very successfully operated in 2009, between Caernarfon and Hafod-y-llyn. Some services will be extended over a further section of new railway to the bridge at Pont Croesor, giving magnificent and extensive views of the Snowdon range and of the Osprey nest site. If the dispute is settled early enough, then it may be possible to run some trains through to Porthmadog at the end of 2010, but a full summer timetable will not now be feasible before 2011.

FfR Co

18th August 2009"

On a sad note, Dr. Ben Fisher, known on here as something with the word fisher in it if I remember correctly has recently passed away.

 

Just aswell we're post grouping then isn't it!

 

Yet more proof, I fear, that something which ought to be quite easily resolved is now beyond reasonable negotiation.

 

The problems are political, and crucially, financial; the practicalities are not the issue. In fact, as far as im aware the WHHR were quite happy to change/modify the couplings and brakes of the vehicles they were going to use on the 'mainline' and either adopt or train their operating staff on the FR rulebook, however this would take time to implement even if there was an agreement tomorrow and is just one of the reasons why the various ideas for Pont Croesor shuttles werent realistic.

Chris

 

I replied, before realising i really cant be bothered going through it all over again...

 

Some heads need banging together here. Surely there is an arbitration service who can sort this out? How much money is needed to get the CTRL section opened? Couldn't a loan be arranged? If the WHR get the road money then it's paid off. If they don't then they need the money anyway. I'm sure there's plenty of people like myself would loan them money at zero interest for a relatively short period.

 

The ongoing dispute over the unpaid £250,000 bill has today hit the BBC News website.

Clicky here >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/8209103.stm

 

Banging Heads Together

If that doesn't provide a case for a 2010-only arrangement with the WHR (C) running trains from Caernarfon to Pont Croesor and the WHR (P) from Porthmadog to Pont Croesor to connect with them, I don't know what does. Presumably to run WHR (C) trains to PC they will have to complete the loop there, and it ought not to be beyond them to timetable it so that a WHR (P) train is waiting there when the WHR (C) train arrives, loads up with passengers and heads off south, then the WHR (C) train runs round and heads off north, before the WHR (P) train returns to collect any passengers unable to find seats on the first train to Port. Or something like that. Good for both railways, an interesting experience for the passengers, and the opportunity to work together for mutual benefit and hopefully stop their silly arguments and reach an agreement for 2011 and beyond.

And I believe in mochyn hedegog too !

Richard

 

I spent three days on the WHR and was most impressed with the garratts, went all the way to Hofod y Llyn the chat from them is absolutely wonderful, I was lucky enough to have the K1 on it's own once hauling just 7 coaches, any longer trains and she is doubled headed and mostly with a diesel although I did see her double headed with one train with Garratt 87, the scenery is really stunning between Waunfawr and Hafod y Llyn, but if someone as suggests on here that the railway is converted as a tramway, or light rail with diesel units NO WAY WOULD I TRAVEL ON IT, I would'nt waste my money I've seen the scenery and as beautiful as it is a tramway would spoil the whole experience, I would rather spend less money and use the bus, and to say that the Garratts are too modern and stylish for the line is TOTAL RUBBISH, perhaps one of the persons who criticised the railway appears to be from France or has an interest in French Railways should concentrate his ideas on railways in that country and leave us alone, all the trains that I travelled on were fully loaded many with families with children who seemed most interested in the steam locos, I doubt they would travel on a monotonous tramway, rather like haviing to travel with diesel traction when you expect steam , every time I go to North Wales I will support the WHR as it is any change for trams or diesel units, I would'nt go within 10 miles of it let alone travel on it.

 

Im not so sure Richard, the same problems exist as before - for WHHR trains to run to Pont Croesor would almost certainly require both railways to spend money and time on something which would seemingly only be guaranteed for a limited time, perhaps just one season. Until there is a long-term operating agreement i just dont see it happening.

Chris

 

Luckier than me as K1was double heading with a diesel when I went which appeared to be doing most of the work. 87 was rostered but not running as being coal fired I had hoped to see 87 rather than 143. Did see 143 both ways through the pass and up to Rhydd Ddu but was a bit disappointed in the chat. I think they have so much power in reserve that they are not necessarily working that hard. Those that work on the WHR who post on here will be able to say if that is true or not. Certainly got the impression that of the welsh narrow gauge Vale of Rheidol is still the best for noise from the front end. again that can be very suggestive as it is often amazing how the sound from two different locos of the same type or with different drivers can vary and I may just have been unlucky.

That is not to say it was a poor experience but sometimes you possibly go with so high expectations that you can be left a little disappointed not because it is not good but it does not match your expectations, whereas you can have the opposite feeling about an inferior product just because it far exceeds expectations.

I think that is why I am struggling to really be won over by the WHR as it currently is. Not because it is poor just because my expectations were so high, probably unrealisticly high that I had no where else to go but feel slightly disappointed. I am sure I will get over it over time and I was really looking forward to it being opened from Port To Beddgelert as judging from the original proposed timetable this was a length and frequency of journey that I could see myself using with the family. Unfortunately we did Rhydd Ddu to Caernarvon a few years and it would take an awful lot of persuading to get my wife and kids to do that section again even though we upgraded to first class.

 

That may well be the case but hopefully from an outsiders perspective it is the push that is required to get a long term operating agreement in place if ever there is going to be one. However from the FRCo's point of view I think until they actually have another loco available and a full rake of carriages operating as they are now makes perefect commercial sense.

 

watch this, remembering that current trains have an extra coach + bike wagon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5F3TeohQVs


Incidentally, the youtube user is indeed our good friend renovator - i just received a lovely message telling me to get off his back, after briefly replying 'proposed by whom?'.

Charming!

Chris

 

Interesting - the stakes are raised!

 

I see he's removed his comments now

 

I think it is only the bike wagon that is extra as they are running with 8 coaches already in this clips however to make up for that hopefully they also weighed down with a few more passengers.

Having watched the video again though it does reinforce my impression that they are not making as much noise as I envisaged they would. I really expected the sound to be resonating like on the Vale of Rheidol as they approach Devils Bridge. I am not saying it is deathly quiet but neither is it particularly raucous.

I would be interested on MichaelH's view after he has visited having already seen them in action in SA