Which railways will still be with us in 10 years?

I would like to congratulate you!

 

Some lines have a greater public appeal.

Well presented locomotives, rolling stock and stations.
Passes through attractive countryside.
Stiffer climbs (making to locomotive work a bit harder).
Nice walks within a short distance of the station.
Good reasonably priced catering.
Welcoming watering holes

Most of the above sounds like enthusiast appeal to me! It also sounds like Middleton - apart from the 'watering holes' anyway..!

Joking aside the main thing that Joe Public wants is a steam engine and clean facilities (especially toilets). The shape, size and colour of the locomotive is irrelevant if Mrs Public thinks the toilets are not up to scratch and the catering poor.

 

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. From the visitor surveys I've done, most people ("Joe Public") don't have that many steam railways to choose from, or don't know they exist. They don't read the railway magazines or discussion forums. For a day out, they choose somewhere which they've visited before, or maybe they've read something in the local press, or been recommended somewhere by friends/neighbours.

Richard

 

The railways that survive will have to have the mix of location, quality facilities and volunteers/staff. One thing I think is crucial is whether the railway does/has/will embrace younger generations and ensure that experience and encouragement is passed down to youngsters. I can think of one railway where there is almost no-one under the age of 40 involved on the railway, yet there are others where there seems to be a thriving youth system and the future is being actively considered.

 

well this is one that is going to run and run, imho it could go one of two ways,
either if your in a known tourist area, close to a major town or city, you could well do well, with the value of the pound being what it is, foreign tourists might be on the increase and english holiday makers might stay at home
if how ever you are out in the sticks away from tourist areas then you might well struggle
and to add to this is how well the railways can control their costs, if you employ a large full time paid staff with out to many volunteers and you dont have the same amount of paying visitors then something will have to give, if how ever if you have a good mix of a small full time staff and a large volunteer base its easier to make cost savings without effecting your railway i personally dont think thatit will be all doom and gloom, i think that people will still want to have holidays, but will opt to stay at home and visit their local attractions, the railways in the tourist areas will see more foreign visitors

 

Dead right, which puts railways like the GCR, MHR, B&WR and ELR at risk and others like the Middleton pretty well dead in the water. It'll be a shame when they go, but I really don't think they have a future.

I think it's time for the movement to start planning for the contraction that is on its way, for I'm certain that railways which aren't in tourist areas (for a fairly constant high volume flow of visitors from spring to autumn) and are not close to major conurbations (for a good supply of labour both paid and volunteer) are going to find it difficult if not impossible to survive.

Railways that are not in tourist areas will have to depend on local support and the enthusiast market (which are both quite small segments of the overall market) and those which are located away from the cities simply will not attract enough labour to run them.

Sorry if this offends anybody ...

Regards

 

Colombine, just out of interest what makes you think that that the MHR will not survive?. What with a new C&W dept being bult this year to restore vintage coaches and wagons and other tourist attractions such as the demonstration signalbox and museum at Medstead amongst others,I would have thought that Hampshire has as much to offer as Sussex?.

No offence to you but I am curious.

Regards
Chris Willis

 

One thing that doesn't appear to have been mentioned is how a railway presents itself. A strong, consistent corporate identity/image through publicity must be backed up with results on the ground.

How many railways are like walking through a scrapyard, followed by a train ride in a dilapidated, musty-smelling carriage through a green tunnel? While enthusiasts may be happy with the first bit, if the general public are disappointed with their day out then they will tell people.

Freshly decorated, tidy stations; appealing tea rooms/cafes; a clean train with windows that the passengers can see out of (as long as the lineside is kept cut back); smart, polite and knowledgeable staff. They are all things that don't cost a lot, but will give the public a better impression of the railway, which will lead to recommendations and return visits. A major way to still be with us in 10 years is to ensure you deliver the right product today.

 

Whole heartedly agree with you there although because of financial restraints some Railways large and small are going to have to cut back on these things just to run a service.

Regards
Chris Willis

 

Colombine, just out of interest what makes you think that that the MHR will not survive?. What with a new C&W dept being bult this year to restore vintage coaches and wagons and other tourist attractions such as the demonstration signalbox and museum at Medstead amongst others,I would have thought that Hampshire has as much to offer as Sussex?.

No offence to you but I am curious.

Regards
Chris Willis[/quote:133kx0fr]

Surprising really as I consider the MHR, GCR and ELR one of the big railways in the country thats more likely to survive as a attraction in itself.

 

I'm not sure about this, Chris. Some railways have a short line going nowhere in particular, but they get their visitors coming back by offering a frequent train service with friendly staff, and decent food served by pleasant people. This doesn't need to cost a lot of money - it's more about how the staff and management think about their visitors.

Personally, I find some of the larger operations have lost the plot about giving people a good day out, and spend too much of their time concentrating on operating the "real" railway. You can hardly get a smile out of the guards/loco crew, let along a sensible answer when you ask them a reasonable question. As a visitor, I sometimes feel as if I'm trespassing on their private playground ...

Richard

 

In one sense, it doesn't matter that there is no-one under 40 there - as along as there is a continuing stream of over 40 volunteers coming along.

Young volunteers are not always the answer - they tend to be active for about 10 years - from age 15 until about 25 when pressures of career and girls drag them away from volunteering. However, they may well return 25 years later when their kids are grown up.

 

The key words are 'more than just a train ride'

You don't have to run to an interesting destination for this (but it helps!)

Some railways offer more than just a ride by special events (Murder Mystery, Thomas, Driver Experience, Diner)

Some do it by developing other facilities (Engine House, museums etc)

Those that heed this phrase well will survive, those just intent on running A to B with nothing else won't.

 

Spot on, its about making the most of what you've got.

Another area that railway's really need to grasp the nettle is in respect of party visits, whether it be coach trips, school visits, even corporate events. Too many railways either don't bother trying to go for such markets because its 'too much trouble' or because it doesn't fit in with some other trivial thing they do, and a number of those that do offer such events do it in a bit of a half-hearted way.

That is the sort of market that, if you do it well, can lead to significant repeat income, year on year, that may not be so much affected by the general downturn in the economy. Come up with activity packs, a presentation pack including a guide, souvenir ticket and a copy of the membership leaflet (never know where that one may lead...), packages for local companies that actually look interesting and attractive rather than just a couple of trips up and down the line.

Do it badly though, or in a half-arsed way, and you don't need me to tell you how the railway will be perceived by the outside world.

To survive railways have to look beyond 'the way it always was'.

 

One thing that I hope doesn’t happen. Is that some preserved railways start going down a railway theme park idea to keep the general public coming threw the gates. I hope all preserved railways stay true to the railway preservation movement.

 

[quote="

Dead right, which puts railways like the GCR, MHR, B&WR and ELR at risk and others like the Middleton pretty well dead in the water. It'll be a shame when they go, but I really don't think they have a future.

I think it's time for the movement to start planning for the contraction that is on its way, for I'm certain that railways which aren't in tourist areas (for a fairly constant high volume flow of visitors from spring to autumn) and are not close to major conurbations (for a good supply of labour both paid and volunteer) are going to find it difficult if not impossible to survive.

Railways that are not in tourist areas will have to depend on local support and the enthusiast market (which are both quite small segments of the overall market) and those which are located away from the cities simply will not attract enough labour to run them.

Sorry if this offends anybody ...



Regards[/quote]



Don't understand how B & W meets your criteria. It is close to tourist attractions and in fact it is often used to make a whole day out. Railway plus a walk along the Camel trail or to National trust properties. They run Murder mystery trains which seem to be enjoyed by most. It might appear that it runs from no where to no where but actually there are plenty of times when I was there that we had to ensure we weren't late to Bodmin Parkway to enable people to catch the mainline train. I will agree that passenger loadings do suffer out of season. :smt026

Ann

 

All railways are in essence a railway theme park in that they do not faithfully represent any previous period of the line. All railways have developed to some extent from what they were in the past (hang on, I'm starting to sound like Dr Cossons...).

It is balancing the needs of the commercial with the needs of authenticity that is the key.

 

Your not offending us at Middleton but I do wonder if you have any idea of what you are talking about? I would suggest that we are reasonably well placed to weather any storm and survive a good bit longer. After all, like the Bluebell, we'll have been at the game for fifty years next year. We don't rely on the tourist population and never have done. Our visitor base is largely Joe Public and local with families bringing their children to see a steam loco. We've also got a very high repeat visit factor and a lot of customer satisfaction. We are a relatively inexpensive option for a morning or afternoon and are well within easy public transport reach of over a million people. (That meets your criteria of good volunteer labour supply, by the way.) Not only that, but unlike many railways we are well in the black, having just short of a years turnover in the bank. We've years of experience of cutting our cloth to suit our needs and know how to make every penny go farthest (Well, we are a Yorkshire Railway!) We don't employ any permanent staff and have a good volunteer base, which is starting to get younger, too. Three of our four working steam locos have boilers less than 10 years old so we have invested for the future with them.
If any, the lines that will go are those that owe the banks a lot of money and those that are unable to arrest the ageing volunteer base.

 

Well said, it is all about cash flow at the moment.

Regards
Chris

 

Well said, it is all about cash flow at the moment.

Regards
Chris