Which railways will still be with us in 10 years?

Or with glass half empty - the answer would be: 'pretty good these days in the many areas that were damaged last time'! I wouldn't tempt the gods by hypothecating that were lightning to strike in a different place!

Patrick

 

Sorry Martin for going off at you yesterday.

I can't see there being a loco shortage at Ropley over the next ten years. Just look at what is being overhauled or is about to come back in to traffic on the MHR

92212 about to reenter traffic
45347 out sometime this year
34007 must have about 8 years left on her ticket
30506 overhaul in progress
75079 Parts being made for her
30828 overhaul in progress
41312 to run at spring gala and owner has funds available to pay for overhaul
35005 out of traffic and will be overhauled at some point in the future
30499 awaiting overhaul

So you can see we have a good section of locos to enter traffic over the next 10 to 15 years that are owned by other groups or by the MHR. Also we are still in talks with 34105 Swanage group and 76017 owner.[/quote:2drh747z]


41312 to run at the Spring Gala? Are you sure, when her certificate has expired? Or has she got an extension for one last steaming?

 

Rather than debating the MHR loco fleet (what is it about that b..... railway & this forum?) what about the more basic question of track renewal related to survival in ten years time?

My question (as a loco bloke) is how many railways are actually REPLACING their track at a rate which will keep up with deterioration?

Recent pictures of the rail on the WSR as just one example suggest that it will not last indefinately!

For example put simply (and the figs may not be right and will no doubt be corrected) if you have a railway 10 miles long & the track has 20 years remaining life then if you are not replacing at least 1/2 mile per year with new you have a massive terminal problem looming!

 

1472 is getting close to what I suspect could well be the main issue for the future by mentioning track and it is possible (more than possible) that even a "larger" railway could be "laid low" in the future by too much of its track reaching the end of its life at around the same time. There have been lines which have suffered track problems in the past and 1472 is probably accurate that too few lines have proper programmes of renewal. I believe the SVR has been renewed from end to end in the preservation era but on every line where this has been fully or partly done, the question still remains as to what materials were used. Certainly, the most recent renewal on the NYMR was a stretch of track previously relaid by the NYMR using second-hand materials that had themselves now reached the end of their life. Our PLC Chairman, himself a civil engineer, recently put average track life at 35 years and whilst it can last longer (even on Network Rail, the track just south of Whitby that had to be renewed before loco hauled trains could return to the branch in 2005 was pre-WWII!), I suspect many railways will have had to use second-hand materials in reneweals they have done, whilst others seem to have done little in the way of renewal at all.

However, with a proper plan and possibily acceptance of some speed restrictions, track work can be affordable and can be tackled over time (although 1472 correctly highlights the longer your line, the greater the problem and the more time needed to achieve complete renewal).

I suspect that of greater threat is the need to renew a major structure, principally a bridge or viaduct. On the NYMR, we need to find at least £ 1/2 million in the next 12 months to renew Bridge 30 just north of Goathland. There is at least 1 other bridge needs renewing in the next 5 years at a cost of over £350,000. The Civial Engineer could easily spend £2 million on the birdges alone in the next 10 years, and really the Moors doesn't have that many large bridges! The Severn Valley spent over £300k on Victoria Bridge in the recent past. I believe major work is in progress on the River Dee bridge at Llangollen.

When looking at which lines will survive, examining which have large structures, especially metal ones, will be a major factor as few such structures will have long years of life left in them without major expenditure.

 

Absolutely right & close to the origonal question asked by this thread.

Factors which make the problem more accute may include:
a. Use of over large locos. (class 2/3/4/5 generally much more user friendly than 6/7/8). Big engine Galas are certainly NOT all good news.
b. Running tender locos tender first - knocks both loco & track about.
c. Not keeping the track to good line & level; not attending to dipped joints.
d. Absence of flage oilers.
e. High maintenance bull head rail track.
f. Likely reduction in the availability of good s/h bullhead material.

Recent SVR relaying has used new modern material ie Flat Bottom Rail on pressed steel sleepers which much improves the ride but at the expense of the traditional appearance of the track though it will last a long time.

 

41312 to run at the Spring Gala? Are you sure, when her certificate has expired? Or has she got an extension for one last steaming?[/quote:2udm24k3]


Hi 34007 have you looked on the MHR web site over the past few days. If not I've copyed this off the web site for you.
From: Colin Chambers
Sent: 17 February 2009 17:02
Subject: Spring Steam Gala

Rumours of #41312's withdrawal have been grossly exaggerated

Seriously though, we have managed to obtain an extension on the Ivatt boiler ticket so that it can appear at our March Gala.

Final lineup (subject to availability) will be:-

Met 1
Beattie well tank
Ivatt #41312
Lord Nelson
Wadebridge
Std 5
Bittern

Colin Chambers
Managing Director
Mid Hants Railway Ltd 'Watercress Line'

 

And this lengthy post is relevant to the point of this thread for precisely what reason????????

 

Because rule No.1 of Nat Pres is that every thread has to be taken over with discussions about the Mid Hants loco fleet

 

But help is at hand Mr H - some wise bod has started a MHR forum a much better place to air MHR dirty washing no doubt!! - see other thread.

 

Careful mate. Number 2 rule is that anyone who mocks, doubts, criticises or generally makes fun of the MHR will suffer the wrath of all those nearby!

 

Granted there are those that suffer because some of us Mid-Hants guys over re-act so your point is taken.

There are also those like yourself that appear to open mouth before engaging brain.

There are always two sides to the story, pleas remember that ?.

:smt023

Regards
Chris Willis

 

Granted there are those that suffer because some of us Mid-Hants guys over re-act so your point is taken.

There are also those like yourself that appear to open mouth before engaging brain.

There are always two sides to the story, pleas remember that ?.

:smt023

Regards
Chris Willis[/quote:2apyoco9]

Yawn, yawn

 

Now am I missing the point or has the MHR just brought another black 5 and a 9f from the grave?

8-[

 

You are missing the point.

Regards
Chris

 

You are missing the point.

Regards
Chris[/quote:3azrtcfs]

What is the point then?

 

What is the point then?[/quote:kqih4u25]

As the MHR has taken over the thread are we to understand that it doesn't expect to be around in ten year's time?

Regards

 

Well Amen for that =D>

 

Shame that this thread got highjacked by the Moaning Hoards Railway - the question behind the thread was well worth exploring.

 

I've had some more thoughts on 10 years time. If one railway is offering a mile or less behind a small loco for a fiver and another is offering about 10 miles behind an ex mainline loco for say £12 many members of the public will take their family to the latter.
Further some railway centres charge an entrance fee, whilst others such as Barrow Hill ask for a donation on entry. Those asking only for a donation may well find their income drops more than those charging an exact entrance fee.

 

Some lines have a greater public appeal.

Well presented locomotives, rolling stock and stations.
Passes through attractive countryside.
Stiffer climbs (making to locomotive work a bit harder).
Nice walks within a short distance of the station.
Good reasonably priced catering.
Welcoming watering holes.
etc.

Those lines with few of these could be in deep trouble.