Where is the missing S160?

Doing some more sleuthing:
2248/9 lost at sea
2251 became MAV 411.003,
2252 to pkp
2253 to pkp
2257 to MAV
2259 to mav
2263 became TCDD 45187
2292 to North Korea !!!

I am lead to understand the builders plates were removed.
No mention of 2255.

 

Guys. I was in Poland, and in ZNTK Olesnice before during and after the Tr203 288 overhaul. I new the sales director, and I knew there were only two S160's which could be used for the project. These being 288 and 162 they had both come from the same place, where they had been used as hot water boilers. All the other S160's in Poland we already allocated to museums, so there were no others, bar a rumor of one on a meat factory, again boiling water, but this turned out to be a false trail. I did find a wreck of a ty256 which was the American 2-10-0. As to the operating history of 288, I'm not sure where is was stabled, as it had been a boiler for some years. All of the S160's came out of service in the 80's, which is before I started to live there in 1993. Somewhere I have pictures of the boiler being rivited, and the new firebox being welded and stay fitting. After 288 had gone to england, the option remained open for a second S160, but this never happened. When Olesnice were cleaning up the site they scrapped all the remains of steam fittings and firebox plates. Most of the fittings were bought by Ian, and the rest went in the bin. They were going to scrap the remains of 162, but I bought some time, to see is Ian wanted it. To my surprise he said yes, and it was in Bury before the Rumanian locos arrived. Both polish engines are what they are supposed to be, but a word of warning. If all you train spotters go by the works plate bolted on the boiler, your going to have fun. The boiled were swapped around. Generally they were swapped once or twice, but the changes would be noted in the engines boiler book, which was attached to the mechanical repair book which was always the loco number. Only in the years of the Wolsztyn train set, have loco numbers swapped, just to hide the fact that HJ never paid for any main repairs. Ol49-69 is on it's third reincarnation! I hope this helps?

 

More questions!

According to this site http://www.railalbum.co.uk/steam-locomotives/usatc-s160-2.htm the USATC numbers only went as high as 5849. So how did the CVR loco end up with a number of 6046?

If the list on that site is correct then there is also something funny about 3278, as it should be an ALCO loco but it is listed everywhere else as a Baldwin!

Keith

 

I seem to recall the bar frames are stamped with the makers number. I'm sure I saw it when the frames we grit blasted.

 

Seems like I have opened a big tin of worms!

 

So if I've got you right, then when the frames were blasted, the number revealed was Baldwin 69496 which would mean that the PKP number Tr203-288 being carried was wrong and it should've been Tr203-289? (PKP numbers according to post at http://nymrunofficialforum.createforumhosting.com/s160-t1725-160.html as quoted in post #38)

If Ian bought the remains of Tr203-162 and 3x MAV locos (now at Ruddington), then that means there are actually 9 locos in the UK and Tr203-162 is AWOL?

Worms everywhere!!

Keith

 

Hi Kieth.

Did you get a works number off of 288's frames? I was talking about 162's frames, which are in Ruddington, as I was in ZNTK Olesnice the day it was sandblasted and primed. I can't say for sure where the number was, but I think it was stamped between the front and rear pairs of driving wheels, on the outside side of the L & R bars. You need to remember this all happened 15 years ago, and I can't remember the number I saw, but thinking about it, I think the numbers were in a fancy font, not block numbers. and they were large, but faintly stamped. I don't have a working 8mm video camera at present, or I could find the tape, and see what I saw. I have hundreds of hours of tape in Poland from 93 to 01!

It's also quite possible that in wartime service it was damaged and at that point it's identities got mixed up. Don't forget, other than the painted on running numbers and the builders plate, there was no easy way, once the cab was off to ID the loco. Then in 46/47 the Poles took the engines over and numbered them Tr201, and Tr203 Tr202 being the NBL 2-8-0's. As there were never more than 999 S160's in service with PKP, it does make you wonder why they had two classes of the same engine.

I used to have a set of books on all WWII military engines, but I don't think they covered the S160's.

 

Well that makes sense. So now which Hungarian S160's do you actually have? You have 4 numbers and only 3 imported!

 

Here is the proof of 162 departure from ZNTK Olesnice. The boiler being loaded with the frames in the foreground.



I rest my case!

 

A good read

 

Just to make it clear, I am not involved with any of the S160 locos - I'm just interested in the mysteries they're throwing up!

John, can you remember anything about the NYMR loco - as if you read some of my previous posts, it looks like it either has the wrong USATC number or it had the wrong PKP number.

Keith

 

A good read indeed, many thanks for sharing.

Cheers

Alan

 

Not sure that photo "proves" anything.

It could have been taken anywhere and doesn't have any identification numbers on any of the items (which I believe you have made reference to the need to have, above).[/QUOTE]

 

Hi Kieth.

The two engines used to boil hot water. 288 used to be used in Nowe Skalmierzyce loco depot, and 162 in Ostrow wagon works. I've already posted a pic of 288 as a water boiler. I never made a visit to Ostrow works as it was a C&W works, and I never had any business in that area.

 

Simon. Are you calling me a liar?

 

This picture on flickr suggests the NYMR S160 had a spare boiler.
Whilst it doesn't look like the one above, could 2253 have had a boiler swap at some stage in preservation ?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/66203188@N03/6029162431

the owner of the picture frequents this forum, so might be able to add input.

 

Nope.

 

Simon I WAS THERE! I EXPORTED IT! I ARRANGED THE TRANSPORT! It is ZNTK Olesnice. It is the remains of 162 being loaded for Ian Riley. I'm sorry I never calked a number on it, but I never thought 15 years later I would have my word called into doubt! If you don't believe me contact Ian.

 

I think you miss my point entirely. But never mind, moving on.