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West Somerset Railway - Removal of the PLC Chairman and related matters

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by rodders154, Aug 14, 2018.

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  1. daveb

    daveb Member

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    I agree completely with this. Unfortunately, change isn't likely to happen at all unless there is a firm proposal that the governing bodies can discuss. Currently there seems to be no plan to even formulate a proposal for the railway as a whole. The nearest that we got was the Coombes Report for the WSRA.

    Peter - I know that many of the groups function well, but we all know that there are other areas of the "one railway" that could be improved, and it would really be a pity if the former was used as an excuse not to address the latter.
     
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  2. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    It will be the thread and its readers loss if you go away Faol.
    You have often been able to shed light on what many of us observers are assuming. You have made factual and interesting observations based, as far as I can see, on "close to the hub" knowledge. I suspect a complaint was made - not the first on a WSR thread - which regulars will recall - where posts or photos have been removed.
     
  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The issue, however, is to recognise when significant change is unavoidable if progress is to be made.

    With others, I observe the issues in West Somerset with despair, and see organisational structures act to compound what are at heart differences between well intentioned people about ideas.


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  4. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    Quite agree. At least one regular poster on here has stated more than once, to suggestions for reform, that they aren't from Somerset, don't know the WSR so their ideas are not worth considering.

    Some things require specific local knowledge; other things need common sense and a degree of perspective, and the latter can often be had from afar.
     
  5. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I suspect that it is not the structure of the WSR "family" of organisations that is the root of the problem.

    It seems to me that the large number of organisations does mean that disagreement is more likely and dispute resolution more difficult due to the larger number of disparate objectives and the greater number of "leaders" to convince. All of history has shown this to be true and the most intractable human conflicts are the ones with multiple sides.

    It seems to me that the WSR "family" generally has no clear idea anymore of what its goal is. In this respect it is little different to many other lines. The unifying objective of thwarting closure and/or extending has sustained many lines which then subsequently struggle to maintain such clarity of purpose. Mere existence is not in general sufficient, hence the variety of development schemes of one kind or another.

    There is no doubt no shortage of imagination about "what is next" for the WSR, but there is very obviously no unified or central theme around which engagement of all groups can be built, and the number and variety of organisations complicate the process of achieving a vision (and probably the sheer bureaucracy of such a process will knock much of the creativity, energy and enthusiasm out of the eventual vision - committees are not noted for being visionary)

    There are also some clearly conflicting views of what the railway should be. WSR PLC clearly operate a tourist attraction and the heritage aspect is very much secondary (distantly so I think). WSRA are interested in the heritage aspects. The station groups are interested mainly in heritage, but also customer care and being visitor attractions in their own right. etc etc. Enticingly these objectives appear to align. My observation from visits and watching from 200+ miles is that in reality they often do not align and that creates a tension which is not being "overridden" by a generally agreed vision of what the railway should look like.

    The WSR is not alone in having these issues. I know well that it is a problem rumbling around a number of railways to a greater or lesser extent. It is harder to address and will be more visible where there are more cooks in the kitchen.

    It seems to me that trust needs to be established between the bodies. This will require open communication between them, which will require leadership and courage from all concerned. The Plc board needs to take leadership of commercial matters and WSRA/WST heritage and educational matters, and there needs to be clear "rules of the road" for both groups on how they discharge their responsibilities and how they work together. I would advocate the "heritage side" having a joint body to develop strategies and receive proposals from the plc. Internal commercial competition is ridiculous and needs to be eliminated. Beyond that I would suggest that all other bodies are regarded as "tenants" of the railway and made answerable to either the Plc or the WSRA/WST. Finally, there needs to be some stability around such a plan and a clear undertanding that it will evolve over several years.

    No one asked me, but that's my twopenneth
     
  6. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Sadly you seem to be missing the point. Why change the areas that work well? For example the DEPG, the station friends groups and WSSRT for example? Most would agree that the WSR and WSRA need radical reform but not those I highlight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  7. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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    Reading this made me think of the Bluebell Railway's long term plan. This document, which gets reviewed and updated at regular intervals, sets aspirations and goals and gives the overall shape to future developments. This helps planning and coordination. I'm sure it prevents stagnation and must surely help to keep the vision and enthusiasm of it's supporters and volunteers alive. Does the WSR family have something similar?

    Steve B
     
  8. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I am not the most imaginative of the posters here but sadly unless these matters are resolved I suggest that at best its another financial crisis and at worst closure
     
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  9. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I dont however think that by itself the structure is a problem
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I'll just leave the above comment hanging in the ether as precisely an example of how things can get out of control. Just saying.
     
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  11. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Quick to apportion blame and never taking responsibility. Could be a motto for many.
     
  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    No reason why the Station groups couldn't come under the umbrella of one of the charities - that way they could retain their autonomy, while being able to benefit from the charitable status of the parent for fundraising purposes; and using ring-fenced funds would give a 100% guarantee that money raised for each station could only be spent on that station.

    That said, I think raising that issue is a red herring. Clearly the fundamental relationship to consider is between the PLC and the WSRA, and in particular twin and interlinked problems: on the one hand, both organisations overlap in their commercial, engineering and related functions; while at the same time there is no overall pan-railway governance, and hence the difficulty of having an overall goal for the railway.

    Sooner or later, those twin problems have to be addressed, otherwise things will just continue to bump along as now, against a widening funding shortfall as assets come to the end of their natural life and need expensive renewal. My gut feeling is that logically, everything commercial or operational run by the WSRA should transfer to the PLC (which will have immediate benefits in reducing management overheads of shops, catering, workshops etc). Divested of any need to manage commercial functions, the WSRA would then be able to concentrate 100% on its educational, heritage and fundraising objectives.

    The quid pro quo would be for the WSRA to be compensated by a larger shareholding in the company (financially I guess that would be in exchange for the assets transferred), giving it primacy in setting the railway's strategy. Effectively, that would allow the members of the railway to define strategically what sort of railway they wanted to be; the PLC would then be the executive body to carry out those wishes as well as it was able.

    It's worth considering what a "do nothing" scenario would be. My hunch is that the management demands of running commercial business will inevitably distract the WSRA from running a really successful fundraising operation. Up until now, the PLC has done remarkably well, in comparison to many other railways, in keeping the show on the road almost entirely from revenue. But clearly there is a recognition that that is starting to become untenable: locos, infrastructure and carriages were all mentioned in the Chairman's notes at the last AGM as being in need of major capital investment. On other railways, that investment comes from an energised, engaged, membership body. I can't see how the greater-WSR can function long term without a similar body, yet as things stand, the duplication of effort and lack of trust is preventing the WSRA maximising the value of its membership to the greater good of the railway.

    Tom
     
  13. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I wonder if funds are being set aside, or increased by the Association for the re-instatement of the area where the ballast reclamation takes place. Unless a change has been made in recent times I believe the permission to use the site for reclamation purposes ends next year, after which a prompt start is required to clean up the contamination. From posts some while ago it was suggested that this is going to be expensive.
    Whilst much of the post by Tom, (post 772), is worth considering I doubt the PLC would wish to lumber themselves with the decontamination costs.
     
  14. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    This is exactly where things are going wrong in my opinion. It isn't a "WSRA cost", or a "Plc cost" it should be a "railway cost". On no other railway that I can think of are costs broken down like that, no one went round saying the Bluebell trust needs X amount of money to dig out Imberhorne cutting, or SVR (holdings) need funds to renew the viaduct, it is the *railway* that needs the money.
     
  15. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't the lack of forward planning on this issue one of the reasons why the former trustees were removed from their posts, or am I misremembering all the various arguments?
     
  16. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the "railway" needs the money but what you seem to be suggesting is much oversimplified from what actually happens elsewhere with, for example, SVR(H) & SVRCT both raising funding in their different ways for a variety of projects. It HAS to be clear which organisation the costs fall to or a complete muddle will result. This has to include the contracts previously entered into by the respective organisations.
     
  17. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Oh I agree, but elsewhere everything seems much more seamless, which is the point I'm trying to make. It's quite hard to put your finger on specific things which is why I jumped at this even though it's not a perfect example.
     
  18. baldbazza

    baldbazza New Member

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    Perhaps elsewhere directors and trustees don't act like squabbling schoolgirls?

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  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Quite, but as others have pointed out, it still needs more than individual directors of the companies to personally get along, the two companies need to act more cohesively as one, so that in ordinary discussion it is unnecessary to distinguish between them.
     
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  20. snappertim

    snappertim New Member

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    Judging by the number of” likes” compared with other postings this resume strikes a chord with members of this forum

    By and large I agree with it but my understanding is that WSRA as a charity cannot just swap its asssets for PLC shares as the latter are deemed to have no value. Even if this resulted in 51% share holding this can be watered down with further shares being issued. Of course if the PLC hands over cash this can be used by WSRA on heritage projects such a 4561.

    The question then is can the PLC afford any of this. I suspect at present they can’t.

    I hasten to add This posting is by a layman so I await to be shot down!
     
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