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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Link, please.
     
  2. granmaree

    granmaree Member

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  3. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    So the WSRA have failed to raise enough money to buy 4110. Therefore despite WSR plc’s previous statement, it will now be sold to 4110 ltd after all - with the WSRA having a minority share holding in it?
     
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  4. nick813

    nick813 Well-Known Member Loco Owner

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    Not so, it still can be sold to the highest bidder. Remember The Plc need some cash urgently.
     
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  5. Forestpines

    Forestpines Part of the furniture

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    I think it's fair indeed to say that the words of some WSR supporters on here do not make a good impression on the railways behalf. I won't go digging for further examples.
     
  6. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    True, but it’s fair to say the WSRA don’t have the funds and can now be ruled out as potential buyers?
     
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  7. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Pure speculation. Have you looked at the last published WSRA accounts? They show cash at bank of £375000.
     
  8. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  9. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    So why didn't they buy it when it was first put up for sale??
     
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  10. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, given that the plc have previously stated that they willl only sell to the WSRA - money talks
     
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  11. The Man of Kent

    The Man of Kent Member

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    And if GWR4110 purchase the loco WSRA will continue to have £375,000 (if that figure is current) to invest in the wellbeing of the railway and additionally 4110 will have been secured for the railway plus the Association will not have taken on the huge liability of restoring it.
     
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  12. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Something that seems to get forgotten is that potential volunteers and donors read threads like this. If you were a potential volunteer or donor, would you want to give your time or money to an organisation where people act in an unpleasant manner to others? There seems to be a marked lack of self-reflection about how posters’ postings are read and perceived by the casual or wouldbe volunteer.

    Would I want to volunteer at a railway like this? Would I want to spend my days off, retirement or holiday with people who behave like this and interact with people like this?

    (And this goes for all lines, there are some lines i’ve been put right off even visiting because of the way some of their volunteers and supporters act. And there have been other lines where i’ve seen how those involved have interacted with people here and elsewhere and formed a positive impression and then visited. Voting with my feet and wallet))
     
  13. mvpeters

    mvpeters Member

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    Well, yes, but it's mid-winter, so little income but on-going expenses.
    The WSRA also has to make the case that purchasing shares is within their charitable objectives, Not too hard to do, but it has to be done.
    Edit: The WSRA is contributing no more than 20% of the final price, so 20-25k. VAT & GA is up to the accountants to work out!
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  14. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

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  15. jnc

    jnc Part of the furniture

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    As I previously posted (but apparently un-noticed), a significant part of that was already spoken for (staff salaries for the next months, etc).

    Motivated by people seemingly blowing that off, I have searched for and found the post which gives some details: 'the Charity (WSRA) is required to carry reserves to cover three months costs including salaries".

    I don't have detailed financial information about the WSRA, so I don't know if there is enough left after that to pay for 4110, but to assume there is (as you seemingly do above) is also speculation - unless you have those financial details. If you do, could you please share them with us?

    Thank you.

    Noel
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  16. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    The WSRA annual accounts are available for all to see on their website. WSRA.org.uk . Simply click on the tab marked NEWS then MEMBERSHIP MATTERS then DOCUMENTS. Then select the year you wish to see. Simples! Apart from what is in the balance sheet the company has a regular income stream.
     
  17. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    If they had the money to buy it outright, then why would they have had these recent talks with 4110 Ltd about buying a 20% share in it?
     
  18. aldfort

    aldfort Part of the furniture

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    Members of the WSRA could always try writing to me for a more detailed explanation of the WSRA finances.
    It's not secret information, but it's also not something I'm going to publish on this forum.
    Alternatively you could actually read what @Bean-counter says in his posts as his analysis is normally pretty good.
     
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  19. phil_o99

    phil_o99 New Member

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    Yes and yes.
     
  20. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    I didn't comment when that post was made partly due to shortage of time (It's January and I am an accountant in public practice!) and partly to avoid unnecessary conflict when there had been no further comment, but the highlighted statement (which I know isn't yours, @jnc) is inaccurate in stating the 3 months to be a requirement.

    A Charity is required to keep adequate reserves. How much this is, or what it represents is up to the Trustees to decide, and will of course be based upon the cash flows of their particular charity. For an organisation that received Restricted Funding and pays it our as grants or to service providers (a care charity) may only need small reserves to cover overheads (which could vary considerably), while others will have cash flow that involves heavy expenditure at times of year when income is less and would need variable reserves but at a calendar year-end, perhaps more than 3 months (especially when there is a late Easter!) Three months may be a frequently used reserves policy and is the policy stated in the latest WSRA accounts but it is not mandatory, certainly in this country and will have been the WSRA Trustees' judgement, which they are at liberty to change at any time.

    I don't know the WSRA's cash flow well enough to make a definite judgement as to whether they might need to but such inflows as Appeals depend on when especial efforts are made, or which Appeals are on-going - some may be more lucrative when passengers are around, others when members have less opportunity to support the Railway by visiting etc. The Shop and Tea Room are (presumably) closed, so any seasonal staff wages are not being paid, but there may be mail order sales and WSR Restorations will be working flat out (and earning Income, albeit on an invoiced basis presumably) in the 'closed' (!) season, although the Trustees have decided to fund the 9351 work from their own funds. Hence, the WSRA Reserves Policy will have needed careful consideration and it is required that Trustees review their Reserves policy at least annually.

    Many thanks Mike for your kind words! I try my best (I know, very trying at times!)

    On the latest announcement from 4110 Ltd, can I say, if this is the outcome (and no word from WSRplc yet but one assumes they have/will agree), then on one hand, a very pragmatic solution and showing a willingness to compromise that would not go amiss elsewhere in the country at the moment (and I am sure the Queen would be very pleased with the process which must have taken place behind such an outcome!) - but it does rather underline the attitude of some West Somerset Railway supporters that a) their reaction is to 'rub in' a 'failure' by the WSRA and b) that funds pledged to 4110 Limited appear not have been transferred to the WSRA Appeal.

    Steven
     
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