West Somerset Railway General Discussion

I did notice that Mount Norton was getting bigger again over the weekend and, hope the money made from selling this ballast is used more wisely now against a couple of years ago.

 

Thank you for confirming my suspicions that fire dropping is as significant a cause as fire throwing if not more so. This has less to do with the size of the machine as detailed design and crew awareness. By the way, what coal do you use and is it graded in any way please?

PH

 

To be fair, I don't have the evidence in so much as details of loadings, one of my previous replies said as much. Perhaps someone far closer to the railway could provide numbers.
But you too don't have any evidence to contradict my observations (if you did, I'm sure you would have quoted it).

I do, however, holiday in the area every couple of years, and observations of loadings from traveling the line tell me it is used by holiday makers to get to and from Minehead, with the first in and last put being very busy.
This must reduce road traffic to an extent.

Still, keep those blinkers on Paul. We all know you know best and are the font of all things heritage.

Love and kisses.
Tim.

 

Because on all the lines being mentioned actual motive power needs vary through the year?

 

There is also significant traffic at this time of the year to & from intermediate stations particularly Watchet. To state that this is simply heritage railway "entertainment" and not at least in part public transport is a gross oversimplification - many folk go to wander round that ancient port.

 

That's a fair point. However it is package holiday groups by the coachload who really pay the bills. Children off to the nearest swimming pool, elderly ladies off to the shops or old Ted, the local alcoholic after supplies are all genuine public transport users but we delude ourselves if these lines are really more than entertainment. Not always terribly "heritage" either!

PH

 

You take - again - the railways you are familiar with, which are undoubtedly tourist attraction railways, and then assume that the same logic axiomatically applies to all other steam railways.

My subjective experience of the WSR - not dissimilar in nature to that of @LC2 - is that the traffic is not coachload based, and does include significant usage by tourists to get between tourist locations on the line. That is not just Bishops Lydeard to Minehad, though the park & ride element shouldn't be underestimated, but also part day trips to the likes of Watchet (I confess, the attractions of Watchet leave me faintly bemused, but maybe 6 weeks camping nearby as a student has distorted my judgement!) and Dunster from elsewhere on the line. Indeed, yesterday's Sunday Times included a feature on Dunster which specifcially referenced the railway (mile walk and all) as the way to get to Minehead. Stopping in Watchet one Saturday afternoon in May, I was surprised at just how many people were joining the trains.

This is not public transport as MRLG would have it, but nor is it the classic steam railway journey for the sake of a journey.

 

I note the reappearance of the what loco, anti large ones, 4561 is too small etc etc debate.

The criteria for I suggest the basic WSR loco fleet might be 4 locos capable of sustaining 25mph
on a 1/92 gradient. Manor 4-6-0s and large Prairie 2-6-2 tanks meet this spec. (51xx can
produce 800-850EDHP, 700 easily, Manors slightly more but with a tender they weigh
more.) It is noticeable how 9351 with eight on is very much at its limit compared to
5199 for instance. (4160 of course with its two row SH is marginally stronger, particularly
when it ran at 225psi)

A small Prairie eg 4561 can produce c.550EDHP, comfortable with 'six' on, can keep time
with 'seven'. (August 2002 nos 5542 and 5553 handled seven coach trains for most of the
month, a case of necessity. The secret get the train out of the station asap, similarly crisp
stops.)

Mike (Aldfort) you write as if a small Prairie is more powerful than a 4F.
4F firegrate area 21 square feet, heating surface (tubes, flues, firebox) 1158 sq.ft SH 252 sq.ft
45xx firegrate area 16.6 sq.ft, heating surface.(tubes, flues, firebox) 1087, SH 94 sq.ft

We seem to have been unlucky with the 4F in terms of mechanical failures. As a
consequence footplate crews have had little time to adjust to a very typical Derby
product, (which the 7F is not ). Remembering how these locos hauled 9/10 coach
excursions, and their power output, no.44422 should, if in good nick, be more than
capable of timing WSR eight coach trains.

Regarding lineside fires, as has been noted, the potential causes are many, not
just when the loco is working hard. In the past fires have occurred after Down
trains have passed on the long downhill section from CH to WN. As Aldfort
has obliquely referred to, some ash pans can be problematic. The modified Hall
I believe has to be carefully handled in this respect.

Some further thoughts, (sorry this is all very 'stream of consciousness ' Dorothy
Richardson eat your heart out). PH please stop mythering on about
'Chufferitis'. Even with well filled seven and eight coach trains the
WSR is barely covering costs. Class 4 and above locos are required ( yes
you can make do with smaller locos but at a cost of using more coal and
Increasing repair costs let alone recovering any lost time becomes
problematic, for all Heritage Railway duties there is an optimum)

How could we reduce costs significantly ? Run diesels ? But we advertise
the WSR as a steam Railway. When one day we had a diesel replacement
last month I spent most of the day having to explain/apologise to
disappointed passengers.

The other challenging factor is for a 40 mile round trip our per mile fare is far
less than that for many shorter Railways, (the effects of market pricing
constraints eg what a family can afford for a day out.) But then our 22.5 miles
of route is for those of us who want to help run a railway and rather than just
play at trains is a priceless asset. Why not run trains over a shorter distance I
hear the chorus sing. We do occasionally: we sell many MD-WT tickets, less so
BL-WT ( a trip to the sea side at Minehead resonates with our passengers )
but we still have the whole Railway to maintain. If we were to
close half the Railway, would the overhead savings be more than the revenue
loss? I suspect not, we are where we are. ( a precious asset to preserve I
believe )

Various Heritage Railways have their particular strengths. Many visiting
loco owners/crews at Galas comment how nice it is to have a line with
length and variety.

PH we all have our challenges: what suits one Railway does not necessarily
fit with another.

Finally I cannot but note that A1Xs and O2s seem to have been displaced
for regular workings on the IoWSR with Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks. (I assume a very
sensible and pragmatic approach; large modern locos for precious elderly,
in one case unique, smaller locos.).

Michael Rowe

 

Indeed. Out of the blue, one of my work colleagues happened to mention to me today that he had taken a trip on the WSR at the weekend, with his young son (not sure how old, but about 4 or 5 I think). I asked if he'd gone all the way, but no - as far as Dunster to visit the castle. He was full of praise for the trip (and also nothing adverse mentioned about the length of journey with a very young child.)

I didn't ask whether he had partaken of a cake and coffee on either leg of the journey...

Tom

 

I must have imagined the 300 odd people who got on my train at Cheltenham Racecourse and went to spend the day (and their money) at Broadway then. Funny, as I had a passenger counter with me as well!...

(Sorry to wander off the WSR, but I had some numbers to wave around).

Just because people don't get on a steam train to do their weekly shop, that doesn't mean it's not providing a service. If people are getting on somewhere and getting off somewhere else to do something else not railway related, that counts as a public service in my book, even if the people using the service happen to be tourists; they're still the public!

 

Yes they are tourist lines. But tourists enjoy seeing big steam locos. If BR had run services on the Minehead branch with Halls then maybe you could accuse them of ‘big chufferitis’.

However the WSR using Halls is giving the paying public what they like to see (big named locomotives), as well as using the only locomotives available to them. I don’t know what locos you would suggest they use instead?

You might as well accuse railways of having ‘nowhere to nowhere and back again itis’. Pretty pointless in itself, but tourists enjoy doing it.

 

Anyone who has driven the A358 from Taunton to Minehead will know why so many people park for free at Bishops Lydeard and catch the train.

 

Needless to say I agree with this in some respects but not others. As a matter of sheer fact, the only steam railway I have ever visited on a normal operating day where the number of passengers appeared to justify the number of vehicles in use was the Dartmouth Steam Railway plus, possibly, the Mid Hants. Again, as a matter of fact, an O2 has an almost identical tractive effort to a 2MT which is no surprise as they were intended for similar work. The modern machine is longer to accommodate superheater, large cab plus water tanks with 50% greater capacity. "Modern" it is, large it is not.

PH

 

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"As a matter of sheer fact" I'll add GWSR with 8, SVR with 8 and NYMR with 7-8 as well to that list. There may well be more, unlike some I don't claim exhaustive knowledge on the subject...

 

Is this so or merely what enthusiasts wish were the case? I have seen passengers comments about being pleased to find a line where they could see through the windows.

PH

 

Clearly you've never visited a railway like the SVR on a weekend - and I can back up @flying scotsman123 's statement about the number of passengers using his train the other day, because I was on it too.

According to Wikipedia the Ivatt 2MT tanks' weight is a third as much again as that of an LSWR O2. Sounds a bit wasteful to me, carrying all that extra weight around to no purpose...

 

You came on a quiet day!! Genuinely not joking, everyone agreed that Sunday was the quietest they'd known it for ages, now today was busy!

 

I would expect a railway with an extension in the first flush of novelty to be busy. It is the level it settles down to which matters.

Of course a 2MT weighs more than an 02 and is rather bulkier. In the same way a modern supermini is heavier and bulkier than an Austin Seven. In each case one is a modern version of the other for a comparable job.

PH

 

You need to get out more?
1025 Bishops Lydeard to Minehead this morning left 10 people behind at Stogumber, who chose to wait an hour rather than stand to Minehead.