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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

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    Steve Edge's WSR web site has posted this picture of a vehicle in Washford yard, possibly the one that you saw?

    http://www.wsr.org.uk/2024/10/016.jpg

    It is described as" GWR Collett Brake Third no 5131 at Washford Yard on 4 October 2024". However, this vehicle is not listed in a recently published leaflet on the WSRHT "Heritage Coaches Project". The leaflet lists 9 other vehicles, 6 toplight and 3 Collett.

    Does anyone know more about the pictured vehicle and what any plans for it might be?
     
  2. marshall5

    marshall5 Part of the furniture

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    Not listed under that number on VCT.
    Ray.
     
  3. brennan

    brennan Member

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    It doesn't take long to find the required information via the internet. From my recollection restoration will be a very long and very expensive job.

    P 1987 Bodmin & Wenford by GW 3802 (2-8-0) Preservation Group members, at Plym Valley till 1990. Internally stripped. Moved to WSR 10/08 as part of the West Somerset Steam Railway Trust's Heritage Carriages project. As at 10/12 stored at Washford awaiting restoration, but to Dunster by 05/13. 09/24 Moved to Washford for restoration.
     
  4. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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  5. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interesting to see on its thread that The Swanage Railway is conducting a Governance Review and converting the company to a charity so they can get gift aid on ticket sales
     
  6. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    What an obvious and sensible idea. Will it cost them a "six figure sum" to deliver ?

    I'm trying to find an account of the plc AGM, has it happened and if so, what were the key messages ?
     
  7. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    The AGM took place on Saturday 28th September 2024. Those who hold shares were invited to attend.
     
  8. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Albeit that I am a substantial shareholder, I had a feeling that my presence would not delight either myself or the current directors, so I stayed away. I have, however, received accounts of the AGM from several of the ca. 35 (yes, that few) attendees. The below is as conveyed to me, as is, to some extent, hearsay. I would be happy to have any errors corrected.

    The Directors reported substantial 6-figure losses in the previous two years and a loss in prospect for the current year, albeit smaller.

    No indication was apparently given about how such a position was sustainable, or was to be turned around.

    Charitable status was not mentioned.

    The liability to the S&DRT for the restoration of 53808 has been agreed as £210,000, to be paid over the next 5 years.

    No indication of how major engineering works or the restoration of 9351 or Odney Manor will be financed if / when these fall due.

    Two of my three reporters noted that the 'External Fundraising Director' was present but uttered not a word in the course of the meeting.
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    If correct, extremely concerning for those who prefer iron rails to cycle paths


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    Turning the WSR over to Sustrans would, if nothing else, send a message that'd make every heritage railway in the UK sit up and take notice.
     
  11. 3ABescot

    3ABescot Member

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    Thanks for the insight, Robin that's very worrying if not entirely surprising. Hopefully, confirmation or other information will be forthcoming - official or otherwise - and some positive news about how this is being addressed.
     
  12. jumper

    jumper New Member

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    Companies House report that PLC Accounts are overdue - should have been lodged by 30 September.
     
  13. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's only nine days; irrelevant in the scheme of things. I refer you to numerous posts re: late submission of accounts on the Teifi Valley thread.
     
  14. 80104

    80104 Member

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    This has been on the to do list for the past few years but had been put back as other more immediate problems needed resolution first.
    Aiui though they are going to employ some professional assistance to deliver this. This is reminiscent of employing third party assistance in the application for a non mainline safety certificate to enable the Wareham service to be operated by SRC. That certificate has not materialised due to the seemingly ever increasing requirements for a licence to be granted and what now appears to be an acceptance that operating to wareham is not going to happen for the foreseeable future or someone stumps up a significant amount of money to underwrite it.

    Undoubtedly getting gift aid would be a sizeable amount of income but will it address the underlying financial challenges that SRC (and other heritage railways face)? My fear would be that this will not be a permanent remedy but just serve to give false reassurance.
     
  15. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I would suggest that the question is more whether the railway can afford to reject that additional income - which requires looking the gift horse properly in the mouth to understand both costs and benefits.
     
  16. 80104

    80104 Member

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    I dont think there is a single heritage railway that could afford to reject that additional income. The gift aid scheme has been around for many years and therefore the path to implementation should be relatively easy to follow.
     
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  17. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Part of the furniture

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    This is not exactly uncommon!

    4561 is being overhauled, as will 80078, 7828 still has at around 4 years to go and boiler tickets being extended is not uncommon especially if work is doing in-between, which has been the case. Then there's the JP locos 4936, 6435 and 9466. 9351 bows out after 7828.

    7802 is nearly back and 7812 is only just into traffic. I can't see the both of them working together at the SVR for quite sometime. The EMF need their locos working, and the SVR have 82045, 4150, 34027 coming into service before 7828 bows out. 4930 and 13268 have been in service less than 3 years between them so the SVR is well stocked for current and medium term needs. The EMF also want to get 5164 overhauled. Then with Cranmore turning out Dartmouth locos on quite a regular basis and the likes of 2999 and 6880 will need work, I cannot see the WSR being short of options on the motive power front.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2024
  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thanks for clarifying your meaning - I'd not quite got that meaning from your previous post.

    The path to implementation is less easy, because it (a) has a number of factors involved and (b) involves HMRC.
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don't think it is as easy as all that - otherwise more would have done it. I also don't think there is necessarily a one-size-fits-all.

    There is a concern that what you gain on Gift Aid you potentially lose because "admission" (rather than a journey) is not zero rated for VAT. The NYMR seems to have negotiated that hurdle, but how applicable to other railways that agreement is I don't know.

    Another issue is that, AFAIK, the gift-aided fare is only available where the passenger is essentially treating the entirety as one attraction - so would map roughly to the subset of people who right now would buy a day rover. But on a very long line like the WSR, is that the predominant passenger journey? If you get substantial numbers using it much more as transport and buying station-to-station tickets, the Gift Aid route can't be applied to those passengers. On many railways, I suspect the numbers who don't do the full trip are rather small, but I can imagine that the WSR may well be one that is a bit of an exception to that generalisation, selling more part-journey tickets.

    Most special tickets wouldn't be eligible (footplate courses, Santas, dining etc). Equally, overseas passengers couldn't claim Gift Aid. It would also probably be tricky to recover it from coach party traffic, which is a substantial part of many railway's income, particularly mid week.

    So it is definitely not the case that you can just look at the accounts, see £2million (or whatever) of fare income and think "there is £500k for the taking right there".

    And then if you do go down the route, all the nuances have to be clearly communicated to your ticket office staff and TTIs - there was discussion about that on the NYMR thread around the complexities of one (Gift Aiding) person buying tickets for multiple people in a party. Even if there was a definitive answer on that use case, ensuring that possibly 100+ volunteers acting as booking office staff and TTIs all know the same answer is non-trivial.

    All of which is to say that while I think there is definite merit keeping such things under review, I don't think it is inevitably the right answer. It feels to me that the longer the railway gets, the more difficult the fit becomes. In other words, what may work for Swanage won't be instantly transferrable to Minehead.

    Tom
     
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  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    There is also the point about the way that return visitors are entitled to a year's free travel. That's embedded in HMRC's rules, and even if (like me) you're a fan of Gift Aiding, it represents a cost in fares foregone. That analysis is non-trivial, and getting it right requires quite a good understanding of who the customers are.
     
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