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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    No, I think the comparison with North Korea is completely out of order. However egregious you consider depriving the ability of someone to follow their hobby, it is but a shadow of the humanitarian crimes committed by that regime.

    I think the level of hyperbolae weakens rather than strengthens the argument. If you compare the plc to a despotic and murderous regime, you simply give its defenders easy grounds to criticise the hyperbolic wording and rather than engage with the substance.

    Tom
     
  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    It'd be useful if you actually read what was said and what it was in response to. The only places that seek to close down debate and discussion in the name of harmony are authoritarian one party regimes. If you can think of some better alternative examples to make the point I was making then I am all ears.

    You think it hyperbolae and weakens the argument. I don't think it is hyperbolae and I don't think it weakens the argument - seeking 'harmony' by closing down debate and discussion is not a good thing.

    If you think the choice of example distracts from the substance then why are you even posting about it? Ignore it and focus on the substance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  3. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Member

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    Wasn't the railtour only Saturday just gone? Maybe a bit too soon to detect any increase in donations from it.
     
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  4. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Member

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    I don't think this forensic dissection of the appeal is very edifying. The results speak for themselves without spreadsheets and over-analysis. At the end of the day this is volunteers' hard work.
     
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  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I thought there would have been attempts at collecting cash during the visit. But maybe there will be an increase next week if people have decided to donate online
     
  6. ikcdab

    ikcdab Well-Known Member

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    Tom, all I am saying is that, in my opinion, this forum is not the place for the Trust to publicise its financial arrangements with the plc.
    However, this info is not secret and any member who wants to know should email the trust direct.
    Ian C
     
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  7. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    It’s actually work of the board of a professional company, so I think the analysis is justified in this case, even if it highlights the shortcomings.

    At the end of the day, it’s quite mind boggling to see absolutely nothing being done to turn the appeal around, they are not even bothering to put updates on Facebook anymore. If some effort was put in then maybe we wouldn’t need to analyse anything, but, it appears the appeal is a flop and nothing is being done.
     
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  8. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    More than that this is not a fund for a new boiler, or to restore a carriage or some other nice to have. Nor is it an obscure small group running this, or a tiny line in a field. This is supposed to be the fund to save the railway. If you need a million to survive and carry out critical infrastructure repairs then it should be bringing in more than £1032.44 a week in the middle of high season when the trains should be full of passengers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I suppose the war of words will just go on, until one day, when it will be too late , then comes the blame game, which I expect will be even more vicious over who is to blame, for the WSR going under, the supporters of the PLC will be blaming everyone, except the PLC, Those who spoke out, and payed the price might feel justified in speaking out, but i daresay will be as sad as anyone, Should the PLC, finds its self unable to trade .
     
  10. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Member

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    Don't you see it is the other way round? Not much is happening yet it is being analysed to the Nth degree - I've never seen any other appeal treated like this
     
  11. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    But then I've never seen an appeal where fuel bill savings were added to the total, or where the amount raised was done in such an opaque way.

    Likewise, there are very few (or any such appeals) that I can think of that have asked for so much or presented such dire warnings if the appeal is unsuccessful.
     
  12. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    Oh I don't know, I suppose things could have been less harmonious but, there again, perhaps if the 10 had been elected we might be seeing reasonable answers to reasonable questions from the WSSRT and, who knows, perhaps we might even be seeing pressure being put on the Plc board by a major shareholder to come clean on exactly what this vague £1 million is actually needed for. Perhaps.
     
  13. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Actually @D1039 has provided such analysis of SVR appeals before, along with analysis of the various COVID funds that were running.
     
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  14. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    Also there are no appeals I can think of that have been so vague in explaining what the money is actually needed for.
     
  15. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    I think that the issue is more along the line of 'If the 10 had been elected last year there may have been rather different underlying circumstances that the ones we actually had, which in turn mean things now would be rather different'
     
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  16. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    what would have us do ? applaud them for the tremendous success so far ?

    The appeal is PLC led and board created and the board are accountable
     
  17. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    I would like, but it's not really appropriate. Agree though, certainly.
     
  18. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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    ''Here is an update on the WSR Plc's 'SOS' Appeal:

    The total now stands at £32,793.44 - an increase of £3,373.37 on the last published figure of £29,420.07 on 12 July, representing 6.55% of the £500K initial target and 3.27% of the full £1 million appeal target. We’re closing in quickly on £50,000 as the next interim target week by week which is good news''.

    It's news but I'm not so sure that it's anything worth celebrating.

    Thanks to wsr.org. for the info. <BJ>
     
  19. D1039

    D1039 Well-Known Member

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    Noted. As far as the spreadsheet goes I find critical analysis useful to look at underlying themes. As @Pete Thornhill says upthread, I did something similar for the SVR in 2012 and 2016 and collated COVID-19 appeal information that some posters on here were kind enough to say they appreciated, though I'm under no illusions everyone will.

    The WSR's appeal piqued my interest on a number of levels.

    Its COVID-19 appeal openly showed the source of income but seemed to me to be more elastic than many in what it included, including a pre-COVID rail appeal, station funds and a DMU repair appeal. That's the WSR's prerogative, but its appeal total seemed to me to be more than external cash raised in response to COVID-19.

    Moving to 2021, when the current appeal was launched it was for an existential £1m, which quickly became £500k SOS and another £500k for infrastructure 'if we can raise it' [my paraphrasing], with the SOS being no longer existential as any shortfall would fall to be 'raised by grants or other commercial means'. What then triggered me to analyse it was the early inclusion of a full year's utility savings as income into a less than full year's appeal which I thought will distort the appeal figures, and which I hope the analysis shows. The announcement of today's figure without the update/a total for last week IMO also seems to be put into context by the analysis.

    As I said earlier today (and so a long way upthread!) I wonder how the WSR will treat the WSRA's rail appeal with the 2 x £500,000 for SOS and infrastructure.

    It seems to me there's a lot going on in just seven weeks where analysis might add some clarity. Having set the thing up it is also a useful reference tool for people to see how the appeal develops, if they want to.

    That's a fair point. It's a balance I guess between that and more clarity that analysis might bring.

    Patrick
     
  20. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    If they maintain this week's donation rate they should meet the £50,000 target in around 17 weeks so by the end of November. 'Quickly closing in' is I guess a subjective view of the speed of the fund raising.
     

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