If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Keith_Gold

    Keith_Gold New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2021
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tisbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    easy to pretend to be stupid with good intentions in public at least....
     
  2. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,135
    Likes Received:
    2,021
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I was a Director of a company that teetered on the brink of insolvency on a number of occasions and my understanding of the legal advice at the time was that as long as the Directors had a reasonable expectation of securing inward investment that would more than cover its liabilities then we could legally continue trading.
     
  3. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    1,990
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Over the hills and far away
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Just so. But note the qualification : "the Directors had a reasonable expectation of securing inward investment". If the current appeal doesn't achieve its aim is there a Plan "B" ?
     
  4. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    10,483
    Likes Received:
    6,109
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Never you mind
    Location:
    31A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Andy, this might be a useful video for you ;)
     
    Aberdare likes this.
  5. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    6,953
    Likes Received:
    5,199
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    So what is the evidence of the appeal then? Is there a 'reasonable expectation' that the PLC will raise the money?
     
  6. Snifter

    Snifter Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    3,549
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking at the facebook page, the only answer is "no". There is no stated purpose and there is no target amount so it appears to be as inept as the most recent lottery application. You have to wonder if the same individual is responsible for both ?

    I see that someone commented with the bright idea that the page should include a link to where a donation can be made. You couldn't make it up.
     
  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,966
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Did you ever think that maybe all the 'conspiracy theories' are the result of the WSR PLC things the PLC board has done to the railway, as well as being less than transparent in communicating its intentions and motivations? Taking an approach to communications that is somewhere between the masons 'knock three times and say the password' and a self-aggrandising child in a playground declaring 'I know a secret but I won't tell you' merely creates a void into which people impute intentions and motivations.

    The 'conspiracy theories' just reflect the doubts and the lack of trust and confidence that people have in the integrity of the current PLC board.

    As with others on the WSR you are attacking the effect not the cause.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021 at 9:32 AM
  8. 5944

    5944 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,914
    Likes Received:
    3,323
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Maintainer for GTR at Hornsey
    Location:
    Letchworth
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Halfway down the appeals page. Might need a bit of an update.
     
  9. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    3,525
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Out there somewhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Just catching up so apologies if this has already been dealt with...
    In the original Press Release, just pre cuckoo possibly - I cant remember exactly when and can't be bothered to rummage through hundreds of pages to find it - the statement from the board clearly stated that the reason the S&D had to go was that the board had gone round with the begging bowl (sound familiar?) and the S&DRT had refused to cough up stating that the purposes the board wanted the money for was not within their charity objectives so, by charity law, they wouldn't (couldn't) pay. So they had to go.
    It's as simple as that - or is it? Because later it was revealed that the same charitable restrictions applied to the WSSRT as the S&DRT so they couldn't 'donate' either (although I understand some small amount of money was found for a Plc project within their charity remit - but not for the main demand) Which then begs the question; Why was the S&DRT given the boot but not the WSSRT? Perhaps the WSSRT's shareholding had something to do with it? Your guess is as good as mine!

    All this guff about needing the yard for P Way or whatever came later when the plc seemed to be searching to find some valid reason to justify their actions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021 at 10:51 AM
    johnofwessex, jnc and ross like this.
  10. gwralatea

    gwralatea Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    242
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Except of course, that we Masons (childish as it all may be) actually have a really successful record of fundraising...
     
  11. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2020
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    492
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Worcestershire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I suggest it's misleading to suggest the same charitable restrictions applied to WSRA and WSSRT. True the same principle applies but ability to provide financial support is a function of the precise statement of each charity's objects. In broad terms those of WSRA and WSSRT are written in terms that provide more opportunity to support the PLC financially than was the case for the S&D Trust. Both the WSRA and the now WSTHT are constrained in what they can use charity funds for so, for instance, it would not be permissible for them to help fund the PLC's wage bill.
     
    jnc likes this.
  12. granmaree

    granmaree Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    473
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It didn't stop them (the steam trust) getting the government grant and handing it directly to the plc to go into the central fundraising pot though did it, no ring fence on it to protect the use of from what I can vaguely remember
     
  13. ikcdab

    ikcdab Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    WSSRT Trustee
    Location:
    Taunton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    All money the trust donates to the plc has to be for heritage purposes. Our recent donations have been aimed at relaying the heitage bullhead track and catch point at Blue Anchor.
    Ian C
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021 at 1:29 PM
    jnc, 35B, echap and 2 others like this.
  14. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2013
    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    1,645
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I have no doubt some of the ‘conspiracy theories’ have been as a result of “things the Board has done”.

    However I suspect the majority of the ‘conspiracy theories’ uttered on this forum are the product of
    persons either with too much time on their hands or a need to parade their sense off self importance
    publicly.

    Either way they lessen the chance that any good ideas posted re how the WSR can survive might
    be read and taken on board by those who are striving to have a viable West Somerset Railway in
    place in April 2022.

    Magic Monkey. I have read many of your longer postings. They read well but I think they fall
    Into the ‘Motherhood and Apple Pie’ school of management. Nice to have when the going
    is good, probably irrelevant when a BCG type “dog” is struggling.

    As ‘lineisclear’ has so rightly stated, if the WSR is to avoid falling into the hands of a Receiver
    it is only under the current management team that this can happen. Any changes now
    would merely bring about a pause when time is of the very essence.

    Ideas from the various posters as to how to ensure the requisite funds to support the
    overhead through the upcoming Winter can be raised I am sure will no doubt be welcomed.

    ( The auditor could at financial year end ( 31/3/2022) request reserves at least equal to
    three months overheads although I suspect the argument that a full passenger trading
    season lies ahead would prevail i.e. the WSR Plc is a “going cocern” )

    I hasten to add I now have no involvement with the WSR management. These are very
    much my personal thoughts. To witness the WSR collapse is something I desperately
    hope not to have to witness.

    Michael Rowe
     
    jnc likes this.
  15. ikcdab

    ikcdab Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    WSSRT Trustee
    Location:
    Taunton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A genuine question. The SDRT's objectives include preserving the memory of the SDJR. One way they do that is by running 53808. In order for that to run they need a railway on which to run it. So I'm am puzzled why they could not have donated money to the WSR track fund as that would directly contribute to their objectives.
    As far as the WSRHT are concerned, our objectives show us to do pretty much anything that keeps heritage trains running on the line.
    Ian C
     
  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,966
    Likes Received:
    6,043
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Apologies, I wasn't trying to do down on the Masons by comparing them to the WSR, I was drawing a mental blank at non-criminal organisations that are thought to be very secretive. As you say, unlike the WSR, the Masons are very good at fund raising.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    21,121
    Likes Received:
    39,367
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    They can achieve that objective by running the loco at any railway though - as has been subsequently proven. So I think "we'll meet our objectives to keep running 53808 by paying into one specific railway's track fund" is far fetched. That's a bit like saying "to demonstrate it in operation it needs carriages, so we'll pay for upkeep of the railway's carriage fleet".

    Far more likely to fall within their charitable objectives would have been to have agreed to pay additional funds for overhaul, i.e. to have relieved the plc of some of those costs. But that would have involved a promise of future funding, not immediate.

    Tom
     
  18. Piggy

    Piggy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    273
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    This is like comparing chalk with cheese ....
    The track is the responsibility of WSR and no amount of connivance will alter that.
     
  19. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    10,630
    Likes Received:
    4,394
    This is true. This is why retailers often throw in the towel post Christmas as If they they haven't traded profitably in the run up to Xmas then there is no reasonable expectation that they can survive. I have no insight into the finances of the WSR but would imagine the reasonableness of any forecast of future profitable trading is getting thinner and thinner. The potential penalties for trading whilst insolvent might be keeping certain people awake at night.
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    21,121
    Likes Received:
    39,367
    Location:
    215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    One protection grant-awarding bodies (*) have that their money will only be spent on what is agreed is for the award to be made in arrears. For example:

    - Grant awarding body agrees to fund a specific outcome on the railway
    - The railway carries out the work (or an agreed part of the work in defined stages)
    - Grant-awarding body inspects the work and the costs, and if agreeable, transfers the necessary funds.

    Managing things that way gives an auditable protection that the funds are being spent in accordance with the donor's wishes. It does of course require the operator to be able to shoulder the cash-flow requirements of the staged payments, since they will generally need to carry out work (including bearing cost) a few months in advance of being paid.

    (*) And in this context I would class railway charities as grant-awarding bodies to their associated railway companies

    Tom
     
    ghost and Bluenosejohn like this.

Share This Page