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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    It would be good to think that the WSSRT's AGM will resolve all the WSR's problems, but at best it will start to resolve some of them. Certainly some interested individuals have joined the Trust recently for the specific purpose of electing new Trustees who will work towards the proposed merger with the WSRA, and others have joined specifically to resist that. But all of these new members and all of the people who were already members beforehand are only a small fraction of the total of volunteers and other supporters, so whichever way the voting goes it will prove nothing about how the majority feel.

    This thread may give a better indication. Many of us who post here have pointed out faults in the present management of the railway, both in its overly complex structure and in the recent behaviour of the PLC Board. Some, but fewer, claim that the Bailey plan is the best way to sort out the structure and that otherwise all is well, but with a lack of evidence and an absence of answers to some important questions.
     
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  2. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is meant to be a discussion forum, and I wish it were, but it is impossible to have one sided discussions ! There is a long list of the things members would like to discuss and they have been spelt out many times, usually politely and in expectation of sensible answers, only to be met by a tetchy hostility and refusal to engage. To take a single and personal example, as it should be easy for you to explain, you, personally, have consistently strongly opposed the potential introduction of new Trustees to the WSSRT, an organisation to which you have said you do not belong, but you have never given any reason to object to them or their proposals. We end up with the impression that it is not their policies you dislike but, rather, certain individuals within the group.
    If you want to see proper discussion of these issues then put up your arguments and let the interested parties discuss them. If you are not willing to do this then you cannot complain if you are misunderstood and your point of view not appreciated
     
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  3. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    As I am not the person who started the thread, I do not have the ability to do this but may I request that the Mods set up a poll for me,the question being

    Do you think that the WSR will, assuming no COVID restrictions, open throughout for a full season in 2020, Y or N.
     
  4. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    In the absence of a "proper" poll, and assuming you mean 2021, I'll start the ball rolling with a reluctant and disappointing "N"
     
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  5. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    I have just got to reply to this.
    This is the absolute, definitive example of what is wrong at the WSR and it is simply attitudes such as this...

    "There will be a test of who is is right or wrong..." No, this is wrong. It is an election where people chose. Just because you personally agree or disagree with whatever does not make people right or wrong.
    "Who ever triumphs tomorrow..." . Why do you react as though this is a fight? It's not a fight. The only 'winner' or 'loser' will be the railway if the people making the decisions are those that put their position or egos before the greater good.
    "...indicates who is right or wrong as to what the supporters of the railway think." Wrong. It's the members of the WSSRT who will decide.
    "...the 10 running a recruitment drive to get people to vote for them may have skewed the result towards them." I suppose you are going to deny that the company has tried to do just that since the candidates were announced? And perhaps you didn't notice a WSSRT and WSR board member 'stuffing' (your word, not mine) the current WSSRT Board with three unannounced co-opted members?
    "I believe different things to you and it will be interesting to see the comments on here tomorrow..." It will indeed. I wonder if yours will still be full of vitriol? Or will they be full of gloating?
    "The Railway is only here today because of the PLC board and I cannot see that anybody here could have saved the railway as they have done." I'm glad you accept responsibility for the fact that the railway is as it is today, with no trains running, strapped for operating cash, a large track maintenance backlog, a level crossing improvement project that is practically three years overdue and hasn't even been started yet, holding large grant funding with no indication of the ability or even the intention of being able to spend that by March next year...I have to agree with you. I don't think anyone else would have 'saved' the railway as they have done, certainly not into such a desperate situation.

    You don't seem to understand that it's not all about you or the current Board or any group of individuals. They could all disappear tomorrow and the railway would still be here, people would still be found to fill the vacant positions. I'd suggest you take a long hard look at what has happened at Llangollen and see how positively the supporters have reacted - even to the news that the railway is only just clinging on by it's fingernails. So why does the current WSR Board appear to be so scared to tell the whole truth?

    Openness, Honesty and Integrity. Three key words that appear in almost every description of the term 'Governance'. Take a long hard look at the performance of the PLC Board over the last few years and tell me where they have met any single one of those behaviours.
     
  6. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    It is not his opinion, it is a statement of facts.
    Ah, belief! So much more malleable than cold hard facts. Tomorrow's result will be another fact, but what it says about what the volunteers, staff and other supporters on the railway think will be a matter of belief.
    Now that IS an opinion, as is your powerful argument from personal disbelief, always a clincher. As @staffordian said,
    plus they borrowed as much money as they could. That was hardly financial genius, in fact it was the opposite. Instead of concentrating their efforts on bringing in money from the outside, which would not need to have been paid back, instead they plunged the company into debt and then went on to alienate a large chunk of those who might have given them money to tide them over. In short they did the easy bit, then flunked the difficult bit. In fact any collection of directors who could actually implement the Seaward Way crossing works when SCC first put up the money would have done better than the present lot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
    Dennis John Brooks, SJP, 35B and 3 others like this.
  7. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    This post is worth more than one "like"
     
  8. Piggy

    Piggy Member

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    It's a tad late for a full season this year. Perhaps you meant 2021 ?
     
  9. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I've recently been reading Alistair Horne's fine To Lose a Battle, about the fall of France in 1940. He goes into some detail on the background which led to those events; he points to the internal divisions in France in the late 30's as a major factor. It will be interesting to see what the results of the internal divisions in the WSR will be.

    Noel
     
  10. Keith Sims

    Keith Sims Member

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    Sorry Rodders but a membership of just 200 or so does NOT represent the supporters of the railway. There are many who post on here, or volunteer (around 1000 we are told) who are not members and cannot influence the result of the elections.
     
  11. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Odd you should mention that, as the self-same factor keeps cropping up when researching the fall of sub-Roman Britain, from the days of 'the Saxon Shore' (3rd century CE) to the drawn out final demise of 'Hen Ogledd', the dying embers of which just about limped into the post conquest era.
     
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  12. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    I've shared previously that I think the WSR's future would be better served unencumbered by any of those (and I include both sides of the argument within that) who are part of the current mess . nothing I have read from either side changes that position

    your last sentence though is the absolute pearler that shows why I despair at those involved currently . The delusion is breathtaking , a railway who into 2020 have hogged the headlines for the wrong reasons , a line who hasn't managed to run a train in the main season (when against the odds most other lines did) and a line who has managed to confuse everyone as whether they even could run or not .
     
  13. Forestpines

    Forestpines Part of the furniture

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    And in both cases the thing that gets remembered (Dunkirk and Arthur, assuming he existed) was a heroic but quixotic failure
     
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  14. nanstallon

    nanstallon Well-Known Member

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    facing facts is the first step to recovery.
     
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  15. nanstallon

    nanstallon Well-Known Member

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    I shall be pleasantly surprised if any public trains run to Minehead in 2021.
     
  16. rodders154

    rodders154 Member

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    For the groups information I thought I would share with you a message I received tonight when I got home from work sent via Facebook Messenger.

    Well now, Greenway, that’s you put in your place by the usual suspects (so called moderators included)!

    The recent postings demonstrate how this thread has become a self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory closed loop. Woe betide anyone who has the temerity to post not in conformance with the group think.


    This is from someone not on my Facebook friends list. Makes you wonder what others think who don't post!
     
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  17. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    This forum is not a 'self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory closed loop' and the fact that you can't comprehend that speaks volumes about the old guard at the WSR, and frankly it pains me. Can you really not see that those of us who post here are living in anguish about the utter shambles that the WSR has become? Can you really not comprehend that the 10 people who have put themselves forward as trustees of the WSSRT are not motivated by malice, but by a belief and conviction that the way to save the WSR is by change, by not simply doing the same and hoping there will be a better result?
    There might be a small handful of posters here who have imperfect motivations, but for the most part all seem to wish that the WSR survives its current troubles and lives on to 2021, 2022 and beyond.
     
  18. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    On the other side of the coin that could easily be read as:- "Woe betide anyone who has the temerity to post not in conformance with the Plc Board group think"

    Pots and kettles?
     
  19. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    For the avoidance of any doubt, and to try to get away from what you think is simply negative WSR bashing from me and others on NP, I wonder if you can outline what you feel should happen to get the railway out of it's current predicament.

    Or do you feel there is no problem?

    I'm particularly interested in your (and by implication from your postings, the large silent majority) take on whether the Seaward Way crossing issue is simply fake news, and would not have prevented normal service which the board said would have run as normal had we not been afflicted with Covid 19.

    And also, how you feel the current plc strategy of alienating many potential benefactors will bear fruit in terms of a rosier future.

    I'm sure most posters here would welcome something to challenge their preconceived notions about the current trajectory of the railway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  20. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    For heaven's sake, man, several posters have asked you to explain your position - to enter into the discussions you claimed were missing - and your only response is post a somewhat insulting comment from an anonymous Facebook user offering you support but not addressing the question ! If there is " a self-reinforcing, self-congratulatory closed loop" it is those who give their uncritical support to the current railway management and not only refuse to acknowledge that there may be a few things wrong, which are upsetting supporters, but consider even the most constructive offerings to be an attack. As has been pointed out on many occasions, this refusal to engage is insulting and entirely counter-productive and is costing the railway, which you purport to care deeply about, a great deal of support just when it most needs it.
    I challenge you to stop hiding behind anonymous and ill-expressed opinions and state clearly and concisely why you so readily dismiss all the points made in this thread and what you offer as policy in their place.
    Integrity, openness and honesty, please !
     

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