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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Nat Pres stalwart

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    I undertook to re-post this this morning.

    Robin
     

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  2. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Some of us have formed a different impression, based purely on the series of PLC actions discussed in this thread. If we are wrong, and Chris Price's impression is the correct one, explanation of why those actions were justified and how they have helped the WSR would be very welcome.

    As for deepening resentment; it is unfortunate that the differences of opinion on how to rescue the WSR have escalated into a war which someone will win and someone will lose. But that is where we are and, whoever "wins", the "losers" will be very unhappy indeed and may be unable to overcome their resentment.
     
  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    in a football analogy you were 3-0 up but conceded 3 own goals to leave the score poised at 3-3 . you need to make a game changing substitution but put on a defender
     
  4. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    From posts here previously made, I gather neither does is suggest that they should merge.
    Until the 'litigation culture', a hallmark of the WSR, is jettisoned there will never be peace on the WSR. There may be mergers and formations of new charities and so on , but the nature of the beast suggests that any harmony would have a relatively short life as those sidelined would not be content. The undercurrents and hostilities will linger.
    Also those making threats - such as we have read about in the last couple of days - have no place in any leadership of any WSR grouping.
     
  5. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    I like Chris a lot , however have a pang of disappointment in this post . Selfless dedication does not always mean you are skilled to do the job . Secondly ignoring issues especially the eviction of the S&D trust , ORR guidance , lack of HR policies is not helpful

    thirdly given the HRA didn't support the S&D trust that a representative now supports the PLC feels wrong . Should they not be neutral ?
     
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  6. richards

    richards Well-Known Member

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    My comment wasn't a joke, but a sarcastic suggestion. You're original post referred to NatPres as "not really a sensible vehicle for PR". If you want to rely on your own newsletter for communications, then perhaps you're missing various tricks when it comes to PR. You have a HUGE following on this thread, and it might be nice to read some positive fund-raising news from time to time, rather than snide comments about the quality of the discussion on here (which you have contributed to).
     
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Clear and reasonable. Would those who disagree please set out their stall likewise, explaining in particular how they think the proposed WSSRT-WSRA merger could harm the WSSRT's objectives, and where the money for setting up a new charity (as quoted by the PLC) would come from.
     
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  8. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    'I'm not going to take sides but I am anyway'

    The HRA are not a neutral actor in this process given the connections between the PLC and the HRA and Bailey and the HRA.

    In the words of Mandy Rice Davies. 'They would say that wouldn't they.'

    While I don't think the WSSRT 10 handled the GDPR situation perfectly, I think in the grand scheme of things, it is small fry compared to the long standing track record of bad behaviour of the PLC and their supporters. One incident badly handled does not mean that the WSSRT10 are somehow the same as the PLC Board when it comes to getting things wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  9. Bionic_Woman

    Bionic_Woman New Member

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    Thank you Robin. A well set out rationale for change which protects the interests of both charities and takes the railway forward. Very persuasive reading.
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    This is not a 'referee' opinion, simply a comment on the use of the English language. And, of course it is merely a personal comment.

    A 'takeover' is when a group takes control of a company or organisation so that it is in a position to do its will. In so doing such a takeover can introduce a set of circumstances where people in the company or organisation can become part of the future of that set-up in a way that they may not have previously. On the other hand a 'takeover' can result in a hostile and undemocratic set of actions that cut everyone out and takes the set-up in a direction that is only of benefit to those involved in the takeover. So it can be a good thing or a bad thing.

    Everything that the WSSRT candidates have said suggests the former intent rather than the latter. Of course this is West Somerset and nothing ever seems to be as it's stated but taking statements on their face value is perhaps not a bad idea at this stage.

    PS And as we are now into the sublime waters of Bulleid territory with this numbered post and well away from the GWR can I say that Watersmeet is a delightful place to visit and the loco that carried its name was half decent as well.
     
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  11. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    I am aware of only one WSR dispute involving actual litigation, concerning the sale of shares in a certain locomotive (one of the parties to which is no longer involved in the WSR) and I understood that moves were now afoot to avoid that proceeding to court. I seem to recall a threat of litigation relating to someone allegedly defaming someone else, but did that ever go any further? Has anyone else either threatened or instigated litigation about a WSR matter?
     
  12. richards

    richards Well-Known Member

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    As an outsider, it's been interesting to see how the "discussion" has changed over recent weeks/days. Representatives of both sides have taken to snotty and agressive comments, which doesn't suggest that they perhaps have the skills for the reconciliation they promote. Their choice of language - whatever the level of provocation - suggests that none of them appear to be the best people to resolve this situation or move things forward.

    And, no, you can't just "start again" as some have suggested. There are always going to be some old and new trustees who have to work together. But at some point, someone has to stop this snide point-scoring, be a bit more grown up about it all and also tell their colleagues to belt up.

    On a number of occasions, I have asked the candidates *HOW* they are going to make their wishes happen, but received no reply. If they do manage to get elected and make the changes they are proposing, they are going to be faced by the supporters of the now-"deposed" and grumpy ex-trustees. How they are going to work with these people, some of whom are likely to be in positions of authority and influence on the railway?

    Or are we just going to end up in the same situation as we are now, but with different people taking an increasingly defensive/agressive approach against the wishes of a significant number of their staff and volunteers?
     
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  13. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    You may be correct Big Al.
    However, there were many fine words in the Brexit campaigns. 17 million liked them and voted accordingly. but the majority of NP posts in the Brexit thread believe they were unwise to do that.
     
  14. The Last Post

    I intend my efforts for the good of the Railway and that only. To that end I will now work quietly and diligently out of the Nat Pres spotlight. I am already a trustee of a WSR charity and have decided, of my own free will, that posting on here is no longer conducive to the good work that organisation exists for.

    I hope to be elected to the WSSRT board for exactly the same reasons. Members have the voting paper. They can decide.

    Barrie
     
  15. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    There has been at least one other instances, related here on NP and which meant that money, that might have been better spent in the causes of the line, was wasted on legal fees. And where threats did not make the courts or lawyers desks, often there are continual suggestions of action being taken.
    The problem being that WSR threads (note the plural) are always incredibly long and not easily followed.
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Snotty remarks by people who care passionately about what is happening are hardly surprising. Equally some from both sides have made calm reasonable postings. But over all I have seen much more calm reasonable argument from one side. And the nastiest stuff seems to have been on FaceBook (which I avoid) and face to face.
     
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  17. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Nat Pres stalwart

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    Apologies if I missed the question before.

    The ‘14’s original position, overtaken by events, but draw our philosophy from it, was that the future needs to be charted by a coming-together of WSR stakeholders, not unilaterally driven by one organisation or faction, as is proposed at the moment with the WSR plc ‘taking the lead’.

    That was achievement with the Coombes Report which put the WSRA back on track written collectively and maturely by representatives drawn from warring factions. Ian Coleby and I were the authors of the resolution Which brought that about and I salute the work of Robin C and his then team. We need something similar now.

    The old adage is that you make peace with your enemies, not your friends.

    The WSSRT AGM is still 3 weeks away and there is time for that reaching out to occur and a solution to be found for the Lion to lie down with the Lamb. (I may be an atheist now but you never quite get away from a high church childhood on a Sunday.)

    My contact details are well known (indeed more widely known than they were a week ago !:)) and if that is not done, then we will all be the poorer. Which is not to say that I regard that as a one-sided responsibility.

    Robin
     
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  18. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    My assumption is this - if the 10 are able to succeed then they will have a mandate from the WSSRT members by being elected, they will also have a mandate from the WSRA members as well. I assume that the proposed conference will also be open to others involved in the WSR.

    I think the argument would be that the WSSRT10 would have a strong mandate from members of WSR organisations to pursue their agenda. It is hard to challenge the legitimacy of an electoral mandate (assuming that all the elections and voting have been free and fair).

    I think that there is no doubt that there will be people who will not want to stay involved with the WSR after such a traumatic period, but I get the sense that there is more willingness for reconciliation from the WSSRT 10 - ie no calls for the removal of ID cards.

    I would hope that the democratic accountability would mean that there would be checks and balances andthat those who are unhappy about the direction of the railway would be able to use those mechanisms to voice dissent, and to be able to remove any of the new leadership who fail to provide the new dawn.

    I don't think though that there is a magic bullet to change the culture at the WSR, introducing new structures is good but it is the content that matters, so for me, I would be looking for the WSSRT 10 to behave differently when dealing with those who disagree so vehemently with them in contrast to the PLC. I think a top down change in how you respond to those you need to work with but who have been deposed.

    The general lessons from conflict resolution - is include, don't exclude, allow voice, don't silence. But more importantly deal early with issues and in an inclusionary way to prevent problems from becoming rallying points for the discontented.
     
  19. D1039

    D1039 Well-Known Member

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    From the outside

    1. It was a deliberate act to publish the personal details of the individual nominees who had legally requested the information, which caused them to receive the complained of communications
    2. The honest mistake was not understanding it was illegal to do so
    3. I'm not clear whether the apology was for 1 as well as 2

    Patrick
     
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  20. D1002

    D1002 Part of the furniture

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    I have another question for @WSSRTcandidates regarding the S&DRT. If you do succeed in getting the PLC to be more accountable to the newly formed charity, will you attempt to persuade the board to reverse their decision to evict the Trust?
     

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