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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    No, because, as has been pointed out on here, charities are not democracies. The views of the membership must be taken into account but they are subordinate to the documented charitable objectives. What seems wrong to me is the WSSRT Chairman's apparent belief that a merger would be detrimental to the Trust's charitable objectives. Insofar as the merged charity (if it goes ahead) will inherit the same objectives, the merger will be neutral in that respect and therefore of no concern to the Charity Commission. Insofar as the merger will result in some changed policies in the WSR as a whole, and particularly in the PLC, it will reduce the risk of permanent closure of the railway, which would of course be of severe detriment to all members of the family, including the Steam Trust.

    Now, who can I think of who has taken the latter approach over the last year or so?
     
  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    And when is that moment?
     
  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I wish I knew. But it won't happen if you make enemies of those who would be friends.
     
  4. WSSRTcandidates

    WSSRTcandidates New Member

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    39 likes now! Thanks for all the (moral) support.
     
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    And this is the saddest point about all this, people who if they got together, and put the railway first, might actually be able to save it, and set it on a better path, instead prefer to fight each other. the enemy isn't in this case the WSRA, or the WSSSRT , its the PLC, in the shape of an inept chairman, bereft of ideas, and playing everyone off against each other, who is standing in the way of any future for the line, it's the very last , last chance to save the line, and should be grasped as such.
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    It'll be too late.

    The point about salami tactics, is that there is no obvious tipping point or confrontation. Incrimental slice by incremental slice, people cautioning that now is not the time. Everyone assumes that it will come further down the line but then you end up realising that all your would be friends are already gone.
     
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I know all about salami tactics, and appreciate the risk. That doesn't alter my view about the dangers of dividing people into sheep and goats - and adding slices to the butcher's pile in the process.
     
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  8. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    And doing nothing leads to one growing pile of slices.

    If it wasn't 4110, if it wasn't the SDRT, if it isn't the WSSRT, if it isn't the financial situation, if it isn't the mishandling of the response to Covid then what is it?

    Nobody wants the WSR to go under, no one wants the poisonous atmosphere to continue. There is disagreement about how to get to the end goal. However, my point remains that I understand why people have chosen to sit on the sidelines, but that they should reflect on the consequences for others of their decision, and that if their own group or activity were under threat would they not want people to come out and support them against the threat?
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    They might, and they should. But I stand by my view that poking them with the proverbial cattle prod is unlikely to achieve the result you wish to achieve. That doesn't make them bad people, or wrong, or anything of the sort; it just reflects the normal messy nature of the world we're in.
     
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  10. FrankC

    FrankC Member

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  11. FrankC

    FrankC Member

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    Just to be clear, the entire post was expressing a personal view. On the reasons for trains not running, this has been fully set out a couple of times in the monthly newsletter, which have been hyperlinked to this thread.
     
  12. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Fair enough, but I think waiting around only leads to missed opportunities. To paraphrase Orwell, sometimes nothing short of dynamite will wake people up. You end up sleepwalking into disaster expecting everyone else's better natures to kick in and for someone else to step in. Sometimes a cattle prod is necessary. I think it is, you think it isn't. We agree to disagree.
     
  13. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I have read the reply from FrankC very careful and I'm grateful to him for taking the time to write in such detail.

    I shall try to be brief :)

    1. If I can precise his reply, hopefully with a modicum of accurcy, then it seems to me to be along the lines of "everyone is working very hard behind the scenes" and "it's all going to be alright in the end, honest". Sorry, but as a long-time (occasional) volunteer, WSRA (Life) member and Plc Shareholder, all I have seen emerge from the Plc in recent months are utterances of doom, gloom and statements seemingly designed to upset as many people as possible. I have absolutely no idea exactly what is really going on behind the scenes to make things better. All I see are the unedifying sight of people on their hands and knees weeding the track by hand, an incomplete but critical stretch of track, an apparently unreliable LC, and NO passengers trains anywhere in sight. I'm yet to be convinced that there will be any this side of next Easter.

    2. A simple question - how please do you justify the eviction of the S&DRT from Washford?
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    As regards the second question, the truthful reason would have to be, " because they didn't have shares in the PLC, and in some eyes not seen as part of the GWR ethos , and if it came to shove better them than us "
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    There's a lot to agree with in your post; however, taking the bit I have highlighted: given the fractious recent history of the WSR, which seems to have been beset by factionalism for a decade at least, what do you think is likely to lead to a proper grown-up discussion? If the will was there to have such a discussion, why hasn't it happened by now?

    The WSR tragedy seems too me in three parts, some of which have been highlighted by others.

    The first is that the company is not generating sufficient revenue to sustain a line of the size and scope of the WSR - 20 miles of track, and a requirement for locos and carriages commensurate with that size. That is not a new problem, and therefore isn't solely the responsibility of the current board, though I am sceptical that the new board has done anything other than preside over the same slow decline.

    The WSR is far from unique in being unable to make ends meet from commercial income at all, but that leads to the second issue, which is that the funding gap is not plugged by a concerted fund raising effort, at least not remotely to the scale of other lines of comparable size. Again, that is not a recent problem.

    Which then leads to the third issue, and the one that seems peculiar to the WSR: where is the realisation that numbers one and two are even problems and require resolution? All that seems to happen towards a resolution is destructive: Buggins seem very good at saying why Joe Bloggs shouldn't be allowed anywhere close to the seat of power, while Bloggs is in turn equally adamant that the last thing the railway needs is Mr Buggins taking a turn. And all the while Bloggs and Buggins rotate seats on the various organisations, and meantime the revenue and fundraising both limp along as before ...

    So coming back to the proper grown up conversation? How is that going to arise? Where are the wise elder statesmen, trusted equally by Bloggs and Buggins, and able to say "this isn't about thee or he - this is about the railway"?

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  16. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    People may have been "working flat out to ensure the WSR survives", but there has been almost no evidence of this, certainly not in the way of money making activities. The only exception to which has been the "Living History" weekends, which, as far as I know, were organised by one of those very prospective trustees whom you are criticising for not helping.
    Again, you are obviously party to knowledge not in the public domain, but going by what is in the public domain, the picture looks very different; even if what the Plc has been doing over the last year or so is the right thing, it has been a PR omnishambles. This, in an organisation that relies on the public for gifts of money and time, is incompetence of the first order. It really doesn't matter what you see, or what the truth of the matter is, it's what we, the donating and volunteering public see that counts and, apart from one somewhat lacklustre but obviously heartfelt appeal video at the time of the "lockdown" there has been nothing emanating from the Plc that has contained the slightest incentive for anyone to contribute anything. Agreed, given the position the line was in three years ago, hard decisions have to be made, but hard decisions have to be explained with something more than "we had to do it to save the railway". There has still been no plausible explanation given for the eviction of the S&DRT and even the stated grounds for revoking the lease have changed once, if not twice. Nor has any explanation been offered as to how that eviction contributes in any way to ensuring the WSR survives, meaning as it does, additional work for a Plc board at a time when they are already "working flat out to ensure the WSR survives" together with the loss of the rent that the S&DRT were paying at a time when every penny counts.
    PR-wise, the Plc and, by extension, the WSR has a huge mountain to climb, well, more of a spoil tip, because it is entirely self made and every now and again, it is made higher by another over-hastily issued press release followed swiftly by its equally hasty withdrawal. Pretending either that it isn't there, or, even if it is, there is no need to climb it won't mean "it is going to be quite a long time before everything on the WSR is going to be fine," it will mean it will be never.
     
  17. FrankC

    FrankC Member

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    The "Living History" weekends were initiated by the Board, overall managed by a group of two Directors and two Board Advisers, and managed on the day by a large number of staff and volunteers working together.
     
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  18. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    It is curious that those now seeking to be at the forefront of a movement to shift the WSR into that elusive 'one family' - so often mentioned, but never yet achieved - have come to the fore. Where were they when the WSR was sliding towards oblivion? Was it too much a visualised picture of a rose garden that obscured the realities? Some, if not all, were close the the hub, it seems, so why did they not bring the lines obvious deteriorating situation of infrastructure and finance to the the attention of the PLC? The looming issues should have been obvious to those who worked on the line. Years of inaction or stalling and falling passengers numbers should have rang alarm bells some years ago.
    None of this became well known, it seems, until a temporary Chairman was appointed in 2018.
     
  19. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Can you also confirm that none of the prospective trustees who you accuse of "not helping" were involved in these events? If so, I will apologise for propagating inaccurate information.
     
  20. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Alarm bells might have been ringing, but, as the past few years have shown, what could be done about them was not at all obvious, even when a well-meaning but insufficiently active board was replaced by one that was far more active, but considerably less well-meaning. It seems very unlikely that the Plc were unaware of the problems, so bringing them to their attention was always likely to produce a dusty answer. In any case the two most important failures, in the areas of PR and fundraising have only arisen recently, and with any problem there is always a threshold beyond which it becomes absolutely necessary for action to be taken. Before that threshold is reached the problem is deemed liveable with. All may have not been rosy in the WSR garden, but there weren't enough brambles and nettles to warrant getting out the strimmer.
     
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