If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Welshpool and Llanfair Light Railway

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by tony51, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,307
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Rabbi Lionel Blue once noted "the lion may indeed lie down with the lamb ..... given an infinite supply of lambs". Wise chap!
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  2. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,570
    Likes Received:
    276
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Wales
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Absolute stunner
     
    Richieboy likes this.
  3. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    633
    A well run railway with a sustainable outlook can support WIBN projects. I can think of one with a huge mileage and a great many assets to look after. Yet it runs at a profit and supports a vast array of projects that don't have a direct commercial benefit.

    The W&L had three replica coaches built. They aren't used in regular service and it didn't really need them. Yet they have really added to what the railway can offer. We are not just in the business of running trains, but also telling a story about our history and heritage. Sometimes WIBN is very useful for that.

    Monarch seems to suffer from the same affliction as Mountaineer. The longer it is out of service the more things people will tell you is wrong with it. They seem to forget that at various points in the past these were successful, working locos.

    Tim
     
  4. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,307
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Can someone please remind me how much service Monarch has actually seen on the W&L?
     
  5. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13,854
    Likes Received:
    11,071
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree, with one reservation. The Pickerings reflect the history of the W&L, whereas Monarch represents an evolutionary stub of steam locomotive design, used on a completely different railway. That should and must have some bearing on the choice of where scarce spare funds are focused by the W&L.
     
  6. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    633
    It arrived in 1966. I think it ran 1969 to 1978 on and off. The loco was well used at Bowaters, but as is often the case with articulated locos it was heavy on maintenance.

    A lot of the problems seem to stem from the removal of the spark arrestor at Welshpool. Basically the chimney is far too big and doesn't produce any draft on the fire. This was discovered while the loco was being looked at on the FR. It's amazing they got it to work at all.

    Tim
     
  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,125
    Likes Received:
    4,476
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Free the Alco.

    @35B but doesn't this bring into sharper focus the difficulty of making decisions. One is important in a local context, the other is important in a wider railway design sense. Monarch is also constrained by the fact that the WLLR is about the only place in the UK where it can run because of the gauge.

    On the subject of WIBN, someone facetious could argue that investing resources in restoring ex-summer houses instead of buying cheap and available ex-br coaches is WIBN. But I am not that kind of Monkey.

    @meeee what was the plan for it at the FR and how far did they get?
     
  8. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    13,854
    Likes Received:
    11,071
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree, it does bring those decisions into sharper focus.
     
  9. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    5,307
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Point of order ..... As well as there being the potential to chase it's own bunker around Whipsnade Zoo, much of it's original stamping ground (the SKLR) is still very much open for business .... well, normally it is!
     
  10. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,639
    Location:
    i.o.m
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Not just the W&L and F.R. An urban myth existed for many years on the IoM that Caledonia wouldn't steam and that its long wheelbase spread the gauge on curves so it was unused except for very occasional snow plough duty. The chaired curves on the ex MNR lines were even cited as evidence. It was only when, in preparation for the Snaefell centenary, the chassis was pushed around the Princes Motors curve at Laxey without incident that the perceived problem was disproved. Since its restoration Caley has been a reliable member of the IMR fleet and hasn't destroyed the track. Now, certain persons on the IMR who weren't there when the ex CDR railcars were last in service know that they can't make the bank out of Douglas without both cars being powered. To remedy this would require completely new, and expensive, power units so they remain sidelined part way through a restoration ..... Remember that one of these 'jokers' wanted to give them away to Ireland a few years ago - after the Manx taxpayers had sunk many thousands of pounds into them. Sorry for the rant, it's one of my pet peeves - and I'm not even a diesel fan!
    Ray.[/QUOTE]
     
    ragl, GHWood, andrewshimmin and 6 others like this.
  11. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    633
    It was textbook WIBN story. Two individuals who should know better purchased the loco for the railway. The railway didn't really need or want it. I guess you have to go through the motions though.

    Although it is actually quite a compact design it is slightly too wide for the FR. Height wise I think a stepped in cab like the Alco would fit. The width issue would have required major surgery though. It was dismantled for assessment and i believe a scheme for oil firing was drawn up by Shaun McMahon and Nigel Day, who also discovered the chimney problem.

    It would fit up the WHR but it isn't really much more powerful than a double engine. So it was a useful engine for the line it didn't fit, but not really for the one it did.

    I think common sense prevailed in the end. At least at Welshpool there is scope to maybe get it running one day.

    Tim
     
    ragl, Bluenosejohn, 30854 and 2 others like this.
  12. tony51

    tony51 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    187
    The Pickering coaches were wholly funded by a specific private donation and constructed on contract externally so didn’t take up any WLLR resources, either cost, labour or workshop space. If anyone wants to put up a couple of hundred thousand to do something similar for Monarch I’m sure they would listen. I know Monarch ran services in the dry summer of 1976 as various photos show so it obviously has been useful in the past, but meanwhile the company owns 5 other suitable locos of more conventional design, only one of which is currently in working order (and scheduled for withdrawal next year).

    Perhaps, going back to the 60s, it would have been better to buy one of the various 062T from Bowaters instead, does anyone know if this was ever considered?

    Oh, and here’s the appeal link again ....

    https://www.wllr.org.uk/covid-19-appeal-tracks-recovery
     
    ragl and andrewshimmin like this.
  13. black5

    black5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    1,251
    Occupation:
    Theatre
    Location:
    Merseyside>Bury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I wonder if the team at Statfold Barn would have a future interest in Monarch... (especially after what they have done with the K1 in such quick time, although this would be a much bigger task)
     
  14. meeee

    meeee Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    633
    They have nowhere to run it anymore and the scale of the task is vastly different.
    Tim
     
    Paulthehitch likes this.
  15. Nigel Day

    Nigel Day Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    633
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Steam loco engineer
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    We looked at Monarch at the FR it was there in my early days of modifying locos that I realised just how over sized the chimney was. The was no chance the blast pipe could fill the chimney to make a seal and create a draught. I have subsequently named this as Monarch syndrome. It was through this work I got to know David Moseley and made the offer to look at the other locos at W&L. For what ever reasons Monarch at FR never happened. I believe that she could be made to perform well but don’t know weather W&L would suit her.

    We redraughted every other loco there with positive results. That was really where our major efforts took off. Yes we did Cali on the IoM. Maybe not perfect but a lot better than ever before. She is usable now.

    Just for clarity the Austrian loco has not been discussed. And I believe Chevalier would benefit from a lempor if she stays there. 85 is my favorate loco there and I look forward to seeing her rebuilt.
     
    ragl, SpudUk, gwalkeriow and 7 others like this.
  16. ragl

    ragl Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,666
    Likes Received:
    926
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Consultant Engineer
    Location:
    Shropshire
    I would certainly like Zillertal to stay, if only for the sound of that booming exhaust. I'm sure that it has it's peculiarities, just like any other engine, but it does seem to have settled in rather well.

    Cheerz,

    Alan
     
  17. JMJR1000

    JMJR1000 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cleethorpes
    Certainly is a handsome, good all round machine alright, I'd love it to stay there too. But it's only on lean for a few years then no doubt will return to it's native land...

    Unless of course, there is another spare somewhere, perhaps in need of restoration and a place to call home? Bit of a stretch that though.
     
  18. 60044

    60044 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    752
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Salisbury
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Aren't there any plinthed examples in Austria?
     
  19. RLinkinS

    RLinkinS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    550
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    There were 2 in the Salzkammergut area 35 years ago

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
     
  20. marshall5

    marshall5 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,639
    Location:
    i.o.m
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I believe that there are several U class and similar plinthed around the country. Off hand I can think of one at Mittersil station on the Pinzgauerbahn and ZB 1 'Raimund' in the centre of Jenbach as seen below in Aug 2016.
    ZB no 1 plinthed in Jenbach.jpg
    Ray.
     
    GHWood, ragl, Bluenosejohn and 3 others like this.

Share This Page