Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Eagle1711, Jul 6, 2010.
Ok Andrew - my cheque will be in the post.
Just a thought about how original WP is. Obviously over the years mechanical parts have worn out and been replaced, and there have been several design changes.
So repairing what can be used and replacing what cannot, or what is missing, is just a continuation of what has gone before. Slapping on a coat of paint and sticking WP in a museum is called conservation, but this is a rather false state of affairs somewhat akin to displaying the contents of King Tut's mummy! If the engine was in perfect condition there would be merit in displaying her so that an observer could see (for example) the type of fits and finishes of the various parts and the quality of the workmanship. These details have long since corroded into oblivion and are lost. If the engine is restored using original tecniques such as rivetting rather than welding, a fully restored working engine tells the observer far more.
Those who worry about the story of Granddad's axe which is original but has had two new heads and six new handles, remember that every cell in your body gets replaced over time (six years if I remember correctly) but I presume you would still say you are nominally the same person you were seven years ago!
"Isn't it better to have the real thing restored rather than building a copy?"
Everything wears out and parts are replaced. As far as I am concerned, 'Lyd' is every bit as valid an L&B loco in 2010 as a restored original (if one had survived). One guy, by the way, still swears blind that he has seen 'Lew' in 'Collection X'! Even if it was true (as true as alien abduction, in my view) a rebuilt 'Lew' would be nothing more than a new build, in the end.
To return No.5 "Welsh Pony" to steam, just how much of the current loco would be usable ? If the answer is a minimal amount, then I would rather they built a new No.6 "Little Giant" (assuming there are no remaining parts of that loco so that it could be a "major rebuild" Taliesin-style) to represent the "Large England" class and kept WP cosmetically restored under cover in a museum - would York be interested in having it on long-term display ?
At the same time a new England No.3 "Mountaineer" in original condition would be of considerable interest, although probably about as much use as "Britomart" in terms of operating duties.
To carry out a good museum standard cosmetic restoration it's likely that as much material would require replacement. Most parts have been replaced before so there isn't much of the original left.
What is The Status of Her Overhaul? Is She Being Restored or Not?
I know it has gone quiet...... my cheques waiting for the pony
We've been a bit busy recently...
I'll agree with this. If at Amberley we were restoring Townsend Hook to steam virtually everything above the frames would have to be replaced. As it is with the cosmetic job we've had to use new wheelsets (I say new, a spare set was ordered at the same time as Townsend and her sister William Finlay were ordered) and, erm, oak axle boxes. We have new castings for these in store but it isn't worth machining them for a cosmetic job.
Surely the reason Townsend Hook isn't being restored to steam is because there isn't a railway to run it on?
On the FR we aren't a static museum, and our railway is the right gauge.
At Amberley we are definitely not a static museum. Our cliffside industrial line was built dual gauge (2' and 3' 2.25'') specifically for Townsend Hook and our Orenstein & Koppel diesel 'Monty' (two out of the only three engines to 3' 2.25'' gauge known to have existed) to operate on.
To be honest Welsh Pony has been rebuilt so many times now that one more won't hurt it. It's of no use to anyone in its current condition and certainly not fit for display.
As to how much you would need to replace below the waist is largely in good condition although corrosion to hidden places on the frames and cylinders could be an issue. The firebox is kaput but perhaps the barrel could be salvaged or just leave the whole thing intact and built a new one. It almost certainly has asbestos lagging around it as well. A new smokebox would be needed in fact 3 new doors have been delivered to Boston Lodge recently. Much of the tank would be salvageable with replacement to the lower sides like Palmerston. The cab is mainly rust. As for pipe work and fittings it doesn't have any really so you wouldn't be ruining anything there. The tender has been largely rebuilt although technically it belongs to Princess.
I didn't say Amberley was a static museum, but it does have parts, ie. the museum which are. Sorry I hadn't noticed the funny gauge stretch, the point I was trying to make is there isn't anywhere on the FR to display WP and the one of the major factors in the decision to not restore TH to steam was probably made based on the lack of 'return' for investment.
Any news on this?
Nothing definite yet, but in related news, Princess is to be removed from the pub before the Cob widening works start.
Why? Is the Cob widening going to demolish a corner of Spooners?
No. It's just simpler to remove it before the haul road goes in and the track modifications get underway.
I don't really follow you. If the structure of Spooners isn't going to be affected why does Princess need to be moved? Is the long-term plan to relocate it somewhere else?
Or mend it?:confused1::smile:
Oh no, lets not mend it. It's a museum piece, and we need a few. Put the money into fixing Prince.
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