WELSH PONY 2013

Some points that need consideration. What options are there for Welsh Pony? 1 Do nothing. 2 restore to static condition. 3 restore to working condition. 4 Sell it. 5 Scrap it.
Of these 1 is obvious, 2 is pretty pointless as Princess fills this role, 3 sounds exciting as there are several possibilities as already talked about 4 this could be good because someone else could get a look-in but this would be detrimental to the FR 5 is unthinkable.
So realistically if something is to be done full restoration is the only road. Now we all would like to see Mountaineer, Prince etc repaired but the NEW restoration of WP is likely to create excitement and thus fund raising would be easier. Maybe heritage grants are available.
As for condition look at Ffestipedia to see the design changes. The present design seems most practical and has been longest lasting. But as the engine will have limited train pulling use modern improvements such as superheating would be pointless and would destroy the heritage value. So there is no real option but accurate restoration to present design (or do nothing).

 

Doing nothing is not an option as it will crumble away into a pile of rust.

 

Doing nothing is exactly how it got into the state its in in the first place!! It should never of been plinthed!!

 

Sorry chaps, but it's getting to me now:

of????

Have!! have!! have!! have!! have!! have!!

Cheers

Alan

 

Prince is the icon loco on the Ffestiniog, for which it is famous! Welsh Pony does indeed have a decent history behind it. But not as much history as Prince I'm afraid to say.

 

I think you'll find most people would say it's the Double Fairlies that are the iconic locos for which the FR is famous...

Prince is only four years older than Pony. Princess is older and Palmerston a far more authentic Small England than Prince. Welsh Pony is the only surviving member of its class - there are three Small Englands, but only one Pony.

 

As Andrew says, it's the only one of its class, which makes it unique. The proper thing to do is restore it, as sympathetically as possible to useful working order.... but when? Scrapping or doing nothing are just not realistic options. Selling would be preferable to those and could you imagine the howls of protest that would be forthcoming if that were even suggested. No, it's keep it warm,dry and tidy until the money, time and space are available for "the full monty"!

Ian

 

Not sure how keeping it indoors would protect it from Tinworm really, impression i get is deferring a decision any longer is not an option.

 

Ultimatly virtually anything will deteriorate over time if not kept in ideal conditions. Also I am sure in an ideal world we would like to see virtually everything restored if at all possible although I appreciate in some cases restoration may not be desiable as it would exists in the condition it is in may be a historical artifact. Nobody I am sure would think of trying to restore tthe Rocket.

Ultimatly there are other things I would personally give a higher priority on the FR but if it is a case of restore or loose or there is specific money or asistance on the table, as happened with Talyllyn Railway No.2 Dolgoch, then in my view it is a no brainer. Though if somebody asked me if I would prefer restoration held back for 10 years and so that Prince and Mountaineer could receive attention then I might give a different answer. Especially if Prince came back coal fired and in a closer condition to Palmeston which I think the FR have done a stonking job with.

 

Rust cannot form without the presence of water. The hydroxide ions that form the acid that attacks the base metal need to get their hydrogen atoms from somewhere, and they come from the H part of H2O. So, no water means any rusting process stops dead.

And that, of course, is the impression that you are meant to have. Personally, I don't believe the propaganda and remain connvinced that with no action at all (other than keeping it dry and indoors) Welsh Pony will be around for many, many years to come.

Whether it should be restored to working order is an entirely separate question.

 

".............and in a closer condition to Palmeston which I think the FR have done a stonking job with"

It is my understanding the Palmerston was rebuilt by an outside group.

 

Palmerston was sold to a consortium in 1974 and removed to Derbyshire. The partially restored Palmerston, under the control of Mike Hart, came back to the FR in 1987 for the final stage of its restoration, including the fitting of a new welded boiler, new cylinders and new wheels, re-entering service in 1993.

 

Apologies for being so pedantic but whilst it's true that for iron to rust, oxygen and water are required, the mechanism you've suggested isn't correct (and hydroxide ions are basic/ alkaline - not acidic).

Basically, it's a 2 part reduction/ oxidation (redox/ electrochemical) process (with a further oxidation step at the end to make the 'rust')

Iron atoms are changed into iron (2+) ions and electrons are released (OXIDATION): Fe --> Fe2+ + 2e-

The electrons then combine with the oxygen (from the atmosphere) and the water to make hydroxide ions (REDUCTION):
H20 + 1/2O2 +2e- ---> 2OH-

The iron ions (Fe2+) and the hydroxide ions then join together to form Iron(II) Hydroxide which is insoluble and precipitates out of solution (i.e it's a solid) Fe2+ + 2OH- ----> Fe(OH)2

This is then further oxidised by oxygen from the atmosphere to change it into hydrated iron(III) oxide (i.e. rust) (Fe2O3.xH20 x meaning that the number of molecules of water attached to it can vary greatly).

Apologies for being the lack of subscripts for the numbers in the formulae and again for being so pedantic (I hope I haven't blinded people with Science - I just don't like to see Chemistry explained incorrectly....).

Oh, and for the record, it would be great to see Welsh Pony running again

 

Wowsers

 

My eyes! my eyes! ;-)

 

So Palmerston is possibly more new than old. If the Pony needs a similar amount of replacement why not build a new one, and put the old one in a museum?

 

Any machine 150 years old will have very few original parts left. Isn't it better to have the real thing restored rather than building a copy?

 

DLG isn't a copy, nor is the Earl or Taliesin (even though some people like to pretend Tal is a re-build). All are developments of the original designs and are 'real things' in their own right. So how about a New England?

 

Yes please. Cheques payable to Festiniog Railway Company.