Welsh Highland Railway opens to Beddgelert...

Yeah i wish i could get get to Wales more and give you guys a hand, a NG 15 is defiantly the machine for the WHR cant wait for one out of Beddgelert with 10 car behind it!!! Oh Matron.

 

In which case me may well have met, as I was the Guard in the bowler hat and Black waist coat. Although you would have just been a face among the 434 passengers we carried that day \/

I sampled the WHR from Dinas to Beddgelert and back on Friday 17th in the rain. At £36 it was the most expensive outing for the family we did all week. While the scenery is stunning, and the drop down the hill into Beddgelert is noticeably steep, as an experience it did leave me a little cold. I think the NGG16's just do nothing for me...

I think I will wait till I can do the trip behind (or preferably on the footplate) of RUSSELL... I am young and willing to wait!!!

 

I think we spoke to you in the new museum, I was with my wife and our friend Iorwerth, we both enjoyed seeing Rufas the Easter bunny \/


We've done the section from Beddgelert to Rhyd Ddu twice now and I love it, I do find the NGG16 locos impressive although my personel preference is for smaller Hunslet locos (Blanche is my favourite \/ ) naturally I'm very fond of double Fairlies too!

I'm looking forward to riding behind Russell too, I'm older and willing to wait =P~ We did travel behind Russell on the FR 21 years ago at a Gala in May 1988 \/

 

I travelled on the 11.35p.m. ex Caernarfon on the Saturday following Easter. It was my first journey on the W.H.R. further than Dinas and it struck me that scenery did not get going in any way until beyond Waenfawr, which is a large chunk of time (and money). Quite a bit of Rhydd Ddu to Beddgelert is ho-hum as well. The views of Llyn Quellyn are spectacular and the passage of the S bends is amazing but non-enthusiasts are being asked to endure much for these highlights.

The WHR is a reconstructed railway rather than a preserved one so it is unreasonable to expect it to have developeed any patina of the sort enthusiasts crave for.

My concerns are with the loadings if the day I visited is going to be in any way typical. To operate three return workings needed two large locomotives in steam. Both trains had eight cars plus a bicycle wagon but were quite lightly loaded on a day when there were plenty of tourists about. The numbers on my train were roughly equivalent to those aboard the 11.15 from Welshpool to Llanfair next day, catered for comfortably by two bogies plus a four wheeler hauled by "Countess" She would run the three return trips that day on her own. On this basis one railway would be running profitably whilst the other would not.

Fears that the WHR might again be a drain on F.R. resources were revived by this visit

 

Loadings should improve with time as this year and possibly next you will get many who have followed the progress and are keen to experience the reopened sections. Next year the WHR may have geared up its marketing, got the main coach companies etc on board etc etc , all of which would have been hard to do this year with no fixed time for opening. It might also help though if the website was updated as it still states they run from Caernarfon to Rhydd Ddu!

The last couple of post though have hit the nail on the head in respect of peoples worries. Firstly that the railway is fairly long and expensive to ride and large chunks are a bit dull. It is why if money had been avaialable I was always been infavour of it being bulit to run at speeds of up to say up to 45mph using modern multiple units, with electric doors etc. I do not see the harm in this at it is as you say a reconstucted railway rather than a preserved railway.

Ultimately the success of the WHR or not will be down to the WHR achieving a clear identity and appeal. At present I am not sure it knows what its primary target is and I getting a mixed message in that on the one hand it is a Tourist activity but on the other it appears to want to be a means of public transport. I am not sure if this really has really ever been a realistic aim but rather good PR for getting grants. If they can forget the "public" transport bit and sell the railway to the tourists then apart from coach parties going one way I am sure there are many who would take a trip like Merddin Emrys as a FR member has chosen to do and travel bits of the more scenic parts of the line, maybe with a walk and a bite to eat at a decent pub thrown in.

Ultimately it will be very much suck it and see and I suppose it will be difficult to get a clear idea until it has been completed and running for a couple of years. The sooner this happens the better it will be for eveybody although when I mention competion can I also make a plea that this is not seen just as being able to run trains from C to P but there are decent buildings and facilities at Carnafon and Beddgelert. I appreciate that this is dependent on funds but the whole passenger experience can be severely influnced by such things. A grotty loo is enough for those of us with families to get a line vetoed for years by the wife.

 

If you think that you can do any of the former Welsh Highland formation at 45mph then I hope to god I'm not on the first train its tried on! Have you seen the curves and gradients on the line? The 10mph speed restrictions on umpteen sections has nothing to do with whether there is steam diesel or electric on the front and even less to do with electric doors! Mind you I wouldn't be surprised if this post is followed by someone suggesting a 2ft gauge pendolino!

 

Guessing that's maybe a.m. unless there's a secret post-pub timetable...? ;-)

Passenger loadings can be fickle, as on any railway, and the traffic south to Beddgelert and north from the campsite has yet to settle into a clear pattern - it's scarcely been a fortnight, after all. Certainly trains were quite a bit more heavily loaded the day after the visit you describe, and the eight carriage sets were definitely needed over Easter (and aside from the lock-up carriage and bike wagon which are shunted on and off the sets, life is simpler if the same main sets run daily).

The important concept to understand is that the WHR isn't the Snowdon Mountain Railway, and that every seat doesn't have to be filled to make a train economically viable - I forget what the actual figure is, but it's lower than you might think, the WHR is definitely a net contributor to the combined F&WHR business picture, and has been ever since it got as far as Waunfawr in 2000. Personally, I'd always prefer to travel on a train that isn't packed to the gunwhales, which feels a bit too much like the Big Railway to be a pleasant leisure experience.

It's a fair point that Caernarfon to Waunfawr (before the best scenery gets going) is pleasant rather than spectacular. It has general charms that many railways would be pleased to have - you've got one of the best views of the castle near the start/end, then distant views over the Menai Strait and Anglesey, then mountain foothills and a riverside section that's not unlike the one on the W&Ll but IMHO not quite as good. There are all sorts of interesting details at the lineside (spot the 1828 railway tunnel mouth and cuttings, or the Bryngwyn Branch), but they're easily missed on a first visit.

At the other end, if anyone is worried about the "flat and boring bit" on the last section to open (from Hafod y Llyn to Porthmadog), don't be - as people got to know it during rebuilding it became very clear that it's anything but boring, the 2007-8 WHR(P) services to Traeth Mawr gave a useful taste of this but the best is to come further north.

 

Did I suggest the hole line could be run at that speed? No. However there are certainly some decent stretches you could if the infrastucture was appropriate. Caernarfon to Dinas for example and certainly much of the stretch from the outskirts of Portmadoc to Nantmore

I appreciate that it it is not going to happen and do not blame the WHR or FR as somebody would have had to come up with some serious cash for it to be a goer but as the line is a reconstructed railway rather than a preserved one it would have been great to have seen in the UK a fast modern narrow gauge railway built. Sponner pushed the bounderies 150 years ago it would have been great for the same to be done now rather than build what in essence could have been built and run on roughly the same basis 50 or 100 years ago. i.e narrow gauge steam locos pulling a stream of coaches at up to 20 0r 25mph.

 

Yes I was aware of the various lineside relics but I fear the reaction of the non-enthusiast passengers, who effectively subsidise our interest, will be "so what"! There must be a limit to how much can be extracted in terms of time and money from such as these. They will not necessarily share our obsessions.

I agree about overcrowding but having far too many vehicles on the train not only means extra fuel costs and wear and tear but also produces operating difficulties. On my trip, 143 has a bit of trouble restarting from the Forest Campsite.

It was the last Saturday of the school holidays some two weeks after reopening. I had expected the train to be crammed and was concerned to find otherwise.

 

Equally I was dismayed to be standing on Dinas station the previous day waiting for the first train, to see only 6 people (my family and one other family). The train was only moderately full (2 or 3 families/groups in each coach) having traveled from Canarveon. If the post opening mass has subsided after just a couple of weeks, are we expecting passenger numbers to grow or fall from here?

We had eaten at Spooners earlier in the week, the Wife had commented on how nice the station was and asked if this was the old main line station. When I explained this was built for the railway in 1879 she was impressed. As we waited at Dinas with its waiting room and temporary loo, then got off at Beddgelert with its Tent and Portaloos, she remarked "Why did you make me ride this railway, rather than the nice looking one in Porthmadog" Yes she liked the lake vista and the few waterfalls next to the line, but again you get both of these on the FR. She would have missed the waterfalls had I not known where they were as she was trying to keep a nine year old amused and so not looking out of the window continuously.

Horses for courses maybe? However I assume she is a horse you need to attract? (I am not calling my wife a horse before anyone comments =; )

At the WHHR we always refer to visitor experience as Loos, Brews and Views. We know we fail slightly on the Loo front, but have a high class tearoom, and some decent scenery at P-Y-M.

The WHR has views. (Full stop!) The lack of support facilities will let it down for a long time to come! Until these are sorted my wife will not be traveling again.

If she wants a long(ish) train ride I assume the FR will be the choice...

Maybe I am a realist too?

 

I guess that depends what you expect from "scenery". Lines such as the Talyllyn and Welshpool & Llanfair have never been able to rely on spectacular scenery, and personally I don't think the Bala Lake, Teifi Valley, Launceston or Bure Valley have particularly wonderful scenery either - indeed any narrow gauge line on a standard gauge trackbed is, for me, missing something of the real n-g feel. The first time I rode on the line from Caernarfon to Waunfawr I found the Carnarvonshire Railway section (Caernarfon to Dinas) fairly uninteresting, but as soon as we got onto the North Wales Narrow Gauge the journey improved greatly, becoming a proper narrow-gauge line with a curving, narrow formation following the contours rather than ploughing through them standard-gauge style. The suggestion that non-enthusiast visitors will only travel on a heritage railway if the scenery is wonderful throughout seems flawed.

Richard

 

I think this exaggerates the point somewhat. Non-enthusiast passengers are less likely than enthusiasts to determine the origins of the trackbed but are perfectly able to determine scenic highlights from lowlights, even if they are not able to say why. On my WHR trip there was a group of four who spent the first part of the journey making such obvious comments as "look there's a cow" so repeatedly that I was tempted to reply "no it's a unicorn"! When the views from the window did get good around Snowdon Ranger these comments ceased. I am a little reminded of Rossini's comments on Wagner operas that they had many beautiful moments but also some interminable quarter hours! WHR beautiful moments are longer than this but there is also quite a bit of the other thing as well.

Has the enthusiast world in its romantic attachment to the Welsh Highland legend simply given paying passengers more than they want or need?

 

Like every railway, or indeed most tourist attractions full stop, there are boring bits and there are wonderful bits; when the whole line is open however im sure that the wonderful bits will so far outshine the few miles of tree-lined sections that most people just arent going to be bothered, not that the more 'boring' bits havent done perfectly well up to now.

When trains are running through the pass in a months time, that'll be what most people really look forward too and likely forgive any initial dissapointment as they'll know whats coming futher along; a bit like the first sections of the SMR, the VoR, the Talyllyn, even the S&C, which dont compare at all with with the rest of those lines.

Of course, when the line opens fully, not only will a lot of people leave from Port (will all its facilities) but they'll travel one of the most varied, scenic and interesting 20 miles of line in Britain straight from the end of the platform and when they do get to the end of the line with the castle above i'd be astounded if anyone thought 'was that it!'

Chris

 

But FR is only 13 miles long :-D

Tim

 

...... and you end up in Blaenau - oh dear, not quite Caernarfon Castle is it? #-o

 

Blaenau Ffestiniog is different and passengers are probably less likely to have visited the town by car. Most tourists will already be familiar with Caernarfon Castle many may have passed through the town while travelling to Porthmadog.

On the other hand, Beddgelert should be quite a desirable destination as long as the threat of fire is stamped out.

 

Caernarfon is pritty much the same as Blaneau just with a castle they're both complete dumps, but at least Blaneau is trying to sort it's self out rather than building lots of offices no one wants.

Tim

 

If you think that you can't have spent much time in either. I'm not a Cofi but I work in Caernarfon and its actually a nice place, although to be fair the council don't help. (Who builds a 'bypass' through the middle of the main street?) But you can find bad councils all over the country.

 

Not the greatest start though http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-w ... 8-23436727

 

Probably the train but I wouldn't put it past the locals...