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Vale of Berkeley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Sidmouth, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    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
     
  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

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    paulhitch Guest

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    paulhitch Guest

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  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    I like it but I fear the motto of "yer av'rage" gricer would be that of Mr. Micawber "something will turn up"

    Paul
     
  7. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Locomotive boilers are like grandad's hammer. Replace a certain percentage of them at overhaul each time and they are still legally the same pressure vessel, governed by one set of rules. Replace more than that percentage then they become a new pressure vessel with the same rules as new boiler (which I suspect are more complex). This reason more than any other is why there isn't any rush to build new boilers, as I understand it.

    After a few overhauls virtually none of the original material is retained. But it is still grandad's hammer.

    Sawdust.
     
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  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    This "grandfather's rules" argument may be valid or may be not. All sorts of "wishful thoughts" can arise and I suspect whether a pressure vessel is of welded or riveted construction is likely to be more significant.

    PH
     
  9. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Sorry but you are splitting hairs to try to make a point; a new large locomotive boiler has been built in the heritage era and is currently in service. That is proof that it can be done.
     
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    No one is doubting that it can be done. We will have politely to disagree as to the significance that no large replacements have actually been made.

    Paul H
     
  11. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Sorry Paul I really don't understand what you are getting at; are you saying that although a large new boiler has been built, the fact that it has not been placed on an old chassis is somehow significant?
     
  12. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    And the curious argument that 'it hasn't been done' combined, when faced with facts, a spluttering 'I'm only talking about complete boilers of large locomotives all built at the same time with no reused parts that are built in the UK and not including things being built at the moment like the Patriot' etc etc.
     
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Not very difficult really. Look after what you have before indulging in new builds unless the latter genuinely fill a gap, not in gricer's lala land but in real haulage needs. The latter includes big stuff a ;a "Tornado" and low/medium powered machinery for 25mph tourist lines.

    Pau; H
     
  14. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Mod hat off

    No, sorry that is a different point. Fact is that a large new locomotive boiler has been built in the heritage era. I think that you are just arguing for arguments sake.
     
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  15. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    No need for rudeness. My concern is with whether we are looking after historic items properly and keeping them serviceable in the longer term. Look to the narrow gauge world for examples of how to do this.

    PH
     
  16. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    And to answer the other part of the point, a number of railways have undergone major relaying projects, some have replaced bridges, the Welsh Highland has been built from scratch, the Festiniogg blasted through a mountain - what exactly has the preservation movement failed to do? It is certainly correct that some projects are overly optimistic and others ill-advised, and it mat be that the VoB but why not look at the facts on the ground rather than some overly simplistic and easily disprovable argument.
     
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  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    And I think you are ignoring reality because it is an uncomfortable reality. We had best leave this as we are never likely to agree.

    PH
     
  18. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that Thomas Wicksteed in your profile picture, the 2009 new build Wren?
     
  19. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    mod hat off.
    Paul,
    In your post #89 you inferred that nothing bigger than an A1X or 2ft Gauge Garratt boiler had been produced ... The reality is that an A1 boiler has been. Or are you denying that?
     
  20. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    I think Paul is regularly willing to ignore reality when it doesn't suit his argument.
     

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