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Under restoration/Never steamed in preservation

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by JFlambo, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. MattA

    MattA Member

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    Indeed, I think that all of the Ivatt and BR tender locos all had tender cabs, aside from when the tenders were too big to incorporate a cab.

    I seem to recall that the occasional J36 was also subject to the addition of a tender cab
     
  2. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    As somebody who has regularly crewed the actual locos you list along with others of similar types I have to tell you that during most of the year the 28xx & 78xx are much preferred tender first to the other two. That is not only due to the improved visibility but also the absence of irritating noise and vibration from the tender cabs.
     
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  3. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Sounds very like the objections to cabs when first fitted on GWR locos in the 1870s.
     
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  4. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    More a case perhaps that the majority of heritage railway operation is condensed into months of the year when better weather occurs.
     
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  5. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    It's something that goes both ways. As somebody who has crewed locos like City of Truro, an 8F, the J72, Industrial Tanks, Class 2 Moguls and the Austerity which has been rebuilt as a tender loco, an open backed cab loco is glorious during the Summer, but give me the choice between Truro and an Ivatt in foul weather and it doesn't matter how many vibrations there are, I'll take the enclosed loco over exposure to a torrential downpour or a blizzard (both of which I have experienced!)
    At the end of the day I'll take any steam loco you hand me and deal with the problems with the weather as they come!
     
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  6. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    I remember talking to the crew of a Manor one wet December night - it was Dunster by Candlelight and they were faced with a tender first run to Bishops Lydeyard.

    When I suggested that a PKP 'all weather' cab such as those fitted to OL-49's the response was that they were to hot!
     
  7. Railcar22

    Railcar22 New Member

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    I was on holiday in Whitby last week, and on the Tuesday went to Pickeringn on the 10am departure from Whitby. We had the LNER B1 1264 as the train engine. However when we got to Goathland the NYMR put 9F 92134 on the front of the train. This was the first time she had hauled a train since being withdrawn from BR
     
  8. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Its well established, though, that when Churchward put a large side window cab on his experimental locomotive Earl Cawdor, it was so hated by the crews that it only lasted a year.
     
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  9. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    It hauled its first passenger train on the 28th September. It had done several by last Tuesday.
     
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  10. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member

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    It was sent to Pickering to turn, piloting 6023 in the process. The following day it worked its first solo passenger train in pouring rain - I was the lucky fireman that day:- IMG_0320.JPG

    Peter
     
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  11. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    How does 92134 steam, compared to 92214, Peter? Does the single as opposed to double chimney (With associated changes to the blast pipe arrangement) make a difference?
     
  12. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member

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    I really could not compare the two Mark. Both are big engines that steamed well. I did very little on 92214 (2 trips as I recall) when it was with us as I was a Whitby fireman in the days when there were not so many of us so I consequently was usually rostered on the Whitby locos. Even on our railway you are not going to push a 9F to anywhere near its limits, so on any given day the difference in performance is likely to be down to any number of the variables that steam locos are subject to. It is like comparing 75014 and 75029. I always preferred the former but I could not define any reason for this - just personal prejudice. Certainly both locos usually did what was asked of them and there was not much to choose between them. Going back to 92134, we only had a lightish load (4 teaks and 2 Mk1s) but it worked effortlessly from my prespective (I did not have to struggle with that very stiff reverser like my mate had to, but that will loosen up as it gets worn in). And I had forgotten what a shallow grate these engines have - the back corners take a lot less filling than say a Brittania. We have a loco that will be a real asset in the years to come.

    Peter
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  13. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    You hope! They never did in BR days!
     
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  14. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    Ah, thanks for the fascinating reply, Peter. Lots of good info there :) . I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering how she will compare, performance-wise, to the double chimney sisters that she has. I take the point about not being taxed with only 6 on, even if 4 of them were teaks - I do recall 92214 going up Goathland Bank with 8 on, with seemingly little effort...

    Yes, it looks as though, as you say, the line has now got another asset - a virtually brand new, modern and powerful locomotive which will now ease the load on the rest of the fleet. I've said it before, but will repeat it - well done to all concerned :)

    Mark
     
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  15. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    The 72xx's were usually employed on coal trains from South Wales to points east of the Severn. They would have trundled along at low speeds with much time spent in loops whilst they were overtaken by faster trains. I'm sure that they were well able to cope with those duties - the extended bunker gave them the coal required for being out on the road for long periods and the crew could put the bag in every few miles, so water capacity was not an issue.
    Whatever the theoretical calculations about grate size/boiler/cylinders etc, they did the job they were required to do very effectively and the GWR got their money's worth out of them.
     
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  16. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Member

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    I have found the following Engine Duty (from BR, SR, Engine Workings for June 1964). In the section 'Western Region locomotives - Mondays to Fridays':

    Radyr Duty No. 400.
    8F (72 xx Class)
    ---- Radyr 5.45 F
    16.29 Salisbury East Yard ** ||
    ** Salisbury Loco. 17.35 ||
    18.40 Westbury Loco. ----
    Whatever else it did wasn't in the SR notice, of course.
    A bit more exciting than holding back loaded coal wagons in the valleys, I imagine. (If, of course, reality on the ground on the day had the turn covered by something else.)

    By way of contrast, and as 28xx have been mentioned, the next duty in the list is:
    Severn Tunnel Junction
    Duty No. 409.
    8F (28 xx Class)

    Off No. 410 (WR) Saturday.
    Mondays only.
    ---- Salisbury Loco. 6.20 ||
    6.25 Fisherton 6.45 F
    7.45 Westbury 8.05 F
    13.43 Rogerstone ----
    Daily.
    (Margam back to Westbury and Salisbury rest of the week, &c and so forth).
    Stretched its legs a bit on Mondays, though.
    Pat
     
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  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I suspect there is a degree of personal preference - my own being that I'd rather be cold than hot. So on that basis, I prefer a more open tender for going backwards. You can always put up a storm sheet when it rains, or an extra jacket in the cold, but on a really hot day, not much you can do if you get too hot. (In that light, (un)comfortably the worst day I had on a loco was on 5643 one summer).

    Tom
     
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  18. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree though my very worst hot day was on a 34xxx (I won't mention which one). On a GW loco with a low tender going backwards its actually rather nice on a hot day to put on the coal watering & find that a nice cold fine spray comes back at you at 25 mph!
    My comments though relate to railways in the Midlands & South West. I can well see that conditions and opinions may very in more northern climes.
     
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  19. athelney

    athelney New Member

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    see info below .....re 7200s
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  20. athelney

    athelney New Member

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    Have seen 7200 s at Salisbury on freights from South Wales , they were normally taken off , turned and serviced ...normally traffic for Eastleigh and places east on Southern were hauled from Salisbury onwards by Southern S15 4-6-0s
     

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