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UKRT - Carols at Sherborne: 20/12/18

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Chris_Sav, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    Wayne would have had the STN (or whatever its called now) which showed the extra speed restrictions and any 'prohibits'. That's how he knew. The signallers should also have known as they should also have known that 1F 14 the Pompey to Cardiff should have used P3 at Salisbury and not P4 which is why we were stopped outside delaying the waterloo to Exeter behind us.
     
  2. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks Wayne I didn't know if things like Platform restrictions on lines you weren't scheduled to travel on were shown on the STN.
     
  3. derby2

    derby2 Member

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    John, when any loco is gauged for any route the work covers both directions - even if the operation is only in one direction - and all lines are looked at, Fast Line, Slow Line, platforms loops, bay platforms etc. The restrictions the gauging work throws up are published in the STN and stipulate where speed has to be reduced (usually due to limited clearances or weight) and what that lower maximum speed can be, plus where there is a 'Prohibit'. The train timers will then show on the timing schedule which specific line the loco is booked on. Hence for instance at Basingstoke Clan Line was shown FL Woking-Basingstoke (as MNLPS had requested) but SL (plat 1) through Basingstoke itself as plat 2 is a 'Prohibit' currently, which would have been listed, along with all the other restrictions, at the end of the STN. Obviously the signaller failed to pick this up (reason unknown I might add), so Wayne brought the train to a stand to advise and the route was re-set accordingly.
    All part of the 'knowledge' those at the sharp end have to have cognisance of.
     
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks for the explanation, obviously a lot more goes in the STN than back in steam days when I assume it was up to the running foreman to roster the correct loco for the route. The driver just had to read up on temporary speed restrictions etc.
     
  5. Bulleidfan

    Bulleidfan New Member

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    Thanks to the MNLPS, the crews and UK Rail Tours for a brilliant day and some fantastic memories!
    Happy Christmas and a Great New Year to all !!!!
     
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  6. Chris_Sav

    Chris_Sav New Member

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    Fully agree with the sentiment! A wonderful experience.

    My day ended badly with thousands of others trying to get across Kent in the wee small hours and being fed cr@p by Southeastern over the closure of Ashford International due to the substation fire and unfortunate consequences. With the right warnings at Victoria an hour into the incident, we could have been back in Dover several hours earlier via the North Kent route.
     
  7. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    Your day didn't end as badly as the poor engineer at Ashford who was badly burned in the fire at the substation :(
     
  8. Chris_Sav

    Chris_Sav New Member

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    You have a predilection for stating the obvious.
     
  9. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    Because I have more sympathy for the chap who ended up in hospital than those delayed on their way home from a jolly?
    Well, if that makes me a bad person in your eyes, I'll live with it.

    I suspect you hadn't looked to see what had happened / impact (if you had, I suspect you may have acknowledged the fact that the poor chap was hurt, or decided not to post), you just wanted to bitch about SE. Okay, that's fine, it's your prerogative. But don't call me out for setting the context around it.
     
  10. Chris_Sav

    Chris_Sav New Member

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    If you had read my post fully instead of diving in to pick holes laden with split infinitives, you might have read that I referred to the 'unfortunate consequences'
     
  11. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    I did read your post fully, in the context of your post, I read ''unfortunate consequences" to refer to the delay, not to the injuries (which you didn't mention at all).
    Perhaps I mistook your post. I suspect many others will have too.
    It would only have taken a single line in your post to clarify what you are saying you meant.
    Hey ho.
     
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I read the context to be a day of less than wonderful planning and foresight by some of those on the ground on the Railway.
    Signaller choosing to make life difficult for a charter at Clapham and beyond.
    Signaller apparently not understanding (or knowing) that a train shouldn't be routed as it was at Basingstoke.
    Signaller choosing to route a train into the wrong platform at Salisbury and thereby delay a service train.
    TOC not thinking to warn passengers of a problem and what the alternative routes might be through announcements at Victoria.

    Yes, armchair commentators are a pain as they don't usually know the reality but when there is no hiding place - for one or two of yesterday's hiccups - then there's no reason why they can't be highlighted.
     
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  13. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    If that brightness is now considered acceptable, then that's good news - it looks far more authentic than the high-intensity unit often used.
     
  14. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    Thanks for that. It beggars belief how many communications failures appear to have happened to dog this trip and its lead-up. Congratulations to everyone involved on the receiving end for their determination and commitment.
     
  15. beavis

    beavis New Member

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    1F14.... couldn't use platform 3 at Salisbury. 2S23 late in from Romsey was still there.
     
  16. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    This just goes to show how easy it is to indulge in a bit of unwarrented signaller bashing on a railtour without the full knowledge of external circumstances. The poor bobby does have to deal with other trains on his/her patch as well and they do sometimes get in the way of even the best planned tours. Thanks for this insight beavis.

    Peter
     
  17. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Member

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    Well at the end of the day nothing went badly wrong and a good time was had by all. Some good running from Clan Line, nice Carol Service and good beer - what's not to like?

    So Merry Christmas to all - I'm having a train free Christmas but look forward to some good railtours and galas in 2019! Have a good one whatever you're up to.
     
  18. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    The ecs from the Romsey train left P 3 at 1127 so the platform was free for 1F14
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    It's quite unusual in my experience for the Cardiff trains to use anything other than P4 at Salisbury. There might be all sorts of reasons for not wishing to switch platform for a train at short notice; for example, generally those trains change catering trolleys at Salisbury, and while that could happen at either platform, a late change from plan would potentially cause extra delay to a train that was basically running to time up to that point while the catering staff moved the trolley through the underpass. (By contrast, late changes of platform from 3 to 4 are an almost daily occurrence at Southampton Central on one of the Cardiff trains I frequently catch, often being announced at only a minute or two's notice).

    Without knowing the situation and the other considerations that the signallers would have been thinking about, I'd be very loathe to criticise decisions made by others when we aren't in possession of all the facts. From reading RTT and looking at all the down trains at that time, it looks like they got the Cardiff train (1F14) away with no additional delay (two late at Laverstock South and departed two minutes late); the Exeter train (1L25) lost three minutes (was already six late at Laverstock North and left Salisbury nine late). The charter (112E) was very late arriving but regained a substantial part of that by a shorter than planned stop at Salisbury. Taken together, I'm not sure why people are being so critical of the signallers at Salisbury. Quite likely that putting the Cardiff train through Platform 3 at short notice may have added a couple of minutes extra delay as everyone waiting for it transferred from one to the other platform.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
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  20. gricerdon

    gricerdon Member

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    The ecs from the Romsey train should have been moved to signal Sy215 as soon as possible after it had arrived at 1137. RTT shows 1127 which is clearly wrong. So even if it had moved by 1140 it would have delayed the Pompey to Cardiff train getting to P3. So having followed this through the signaller in fact made the correct decision even if it didn't seem so at the time. It begs the question though as to what would have happened if the charter had been on time and been occupying P4.
     
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