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Tyer 4506/1 Operation details

Discussion in 'Railwayana' started by burgerbern, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. burgerbern

    burgerbern New Member

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    Hi, i need some info, despite searching the web i can find nothing useful about the intended use/operation of this indicator, searches sometimes show interiors of signal box shelves with these indicators with all sorts of indications but none with just OFF lit up, most often putting Tyer 4506/1 as part of the search just brings up pages of info on guns as there is a handgun with that part number, searches on Tyer instruments seem to concentrate on tablet related answers, none of the signalling pages i have found deal with indicators unless they are the type that show arm indications

    here it is
    Tyer indicator.jpg

    it has 2 states unlit and lit whereupon the word "OFF" appears in the window, it has the following moulded into the rear of the casing "Tyer 4506/1" and operates from a 12v DC supply

    i suspect it is either linked to the sensor in a Adlake or similar oil signal lamp and lights up when the flame goes out via its pyrometer (most likely in my opinion) or its to indicate when the arm is in the off position but cannot confirm or deny either of those, i have asked before on another site a few months ago and got no replies, but people here seem more knowledgable and helpful so am hoping someone here will know the answer.

    many thanks in advance
     
  2. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    It indicated a slot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
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  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm surprised that no one has responded to this. I'm no expert on signalling but isn't it simply a signal arm repeater for No.30 signal? These were provided in the box where the signal could not be seen by the signalman due to curvature/whatever. A switch was attached to the signal arm and completed a circuit when the arm was moved to the off position.
     
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  4. burgerbern

    burgerbern New Member

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    So its a repeater for the arm itself not the lamp illuminating the arm, that,s good enough for me, many thanks for putting me straight
     
  5. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    These indicators are very common, especially in larger signal boxes but they are not used with semaphore signals Screen Shot 2018-08-05 at 23.13.42.png
     
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  6. burgerbern

    burgerbern New Member

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    Many thanks for that clarification and the pic
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I stand corrected. I thought that they were for the purpose of detecting semaphore arm positions.
     
  8. Wenlock

    Wenlock Active Member Friend

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    The indications for a semaphore signal arm are ON / WRONG / OFF, this would require three separate "cube" type indicators.
    In boxes which I work (Rolvenden & Wittersham Rd.) this type of indicator is used for electrically detected points, two cubes one showing R for reverse the other N for normal, (and at Rolvenden also as confirmation of route indicator lit, on a signal which applies to two routes with the appropriate route indicator selected according to detected point position, one cube L for loop the other M for main)

    I don't know the part numbers but we also have similar cubes with "bullseye" type lenses, one of which shows white when points are free of electrical route locking, the other shows red for points out of correspondence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  9. John Webb

    John Webb Member

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    Sorry - only just seen this thread.
    The indicators are usually used for repeating colour light signal or point settings in a signal box. Here's a view of the interior of St Albans South signal box during one of our demonstrations in March this year:
    [​IMG]
    Note the lit indicators upper right of the photo - these are repeating home and distant colour light signals which formed an IBS (Intermediate Block Section) on the slow down line north of St Albans, and on the far right a repeater for a colour-light distant.
    Semaphore signals were repeated by electro-mechanical repeaters - the two round objects that are visible on the front of the block shelf also on the right of the photo. Both are showing '"On". The switch on the signal arm has contacts at each end of its travel but nothing in the middle - so if the arm does not reach the correct position the needle on the repeater remains at "wrong" and the signaller knows they have to adjust the signal wire length. (Our adjusters are at the far end of the box and hidden by the end levers.) The semaphore signal lamps at St Albans were mainly electrical and were monitored separately, not by the arm repeaters.

    The OP's first post probably shows that a colour light signal 30 is capable of showing two or three 'clear' aspects. We have a replica Signal 16, which was a ground-mounted three aspect signal:[​IMG]
    Seen here centre of photo. Its repeater on the block shelf shows red when red and 'Off' when either yellow or green.

    Is it just possible that the OP's Signal 30 was a semaphore and they had no electro-mechanical repeater available, and substituted the two lights?

    John Webb (St Albans Signal Box Preservation Trust member)

    PS "On" for Stop or Caution and "Off" for Clear goes back to the earliest mechanical signals - a red board put ON a post for Stop and taken OFF the post for Clear - a bit better than flags used by the Railway Police in the dawn of the railways. But was not 'fail-safe' as a strong wind could blow it off the post.......
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
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  10. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    I think some of you have indicators and repeaters confused: a repeater is line side somewhere mounted on a post, whilst an indicator is mounted on a block shelf inside a signal box.
     
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  11. John Webb

    John Webb Member

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    Martin - the round indicators in a signal box repeating back the position of a semaphore signal seem to often be referred to as 'repeaters' by various people and in literature. I am well aware that lineside repeaters, whether banner style or commonly these days distant signals, are repeaters - although of coarse they are giving an indication! :)

    Regards,
    John Webb
     
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  12. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    There was an "OFF" indicator just like this one with an open release button below like in the photo above that I posted for slot lever No.30 at Stafford No.4 box for trains approaching platform 1 from Stafford No. 5 box, is this where this indicator came from?
     
  13. burgerbern

    burgerbern New Member

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    Hi, I have been in Hospital having an op i have waited over 2 years fr so have missed all the replies since then.

    thanks John for all the info and pics, helps a lot.
    Martin i have no idea where the indicator came from in a railway sense, i purchased it from of all places a Smart Car dealer and parts breaker in the midlands, i purchased a fairly clean Adlake 55 (just covered inside and around the top cover opening on the outside with something akin to burnt on coke) complete with a really grungy 55/4 inside, they also had 4 of these indicators i only purchased the one you see in the original post as the other 3 were pretty grubby

    I cleaned up the Adlake 55 and repainted it and completely stripped the 55/4 and repainted that to end up with these, the ceramic beads over the cables to the pyrometer were mostly missing, so used them all on one cable, i now have sourced some new replacements so just need to replace the stiff wire with a flexible covered with the new beads, one of the bolts holding the pyrometer in place was also missing but i have yet to determine which thread type it is, its close to 6mm metric but the thread is corser, so need to source one, i will probably take a stab at a similar sized whitworth thread first when i can find one, i could just retap it at 6mm but i want to keep its integrity so will only put in the correct bolt however long it takes to match it.
    Adlake 55 Front.jpg
    Adlake 55-4.JPG
    Adlake 55 with 55-4.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018 at 9:46 PM
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  14. John Webb

    John Webb Member

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    Burgerbern - glad to have been of help; hope you are recovering OK.

    Re the "....something akin to burnt-on coke)" - this would have been aged soot, suggesting the lamp had been used with a too-smoky flame in the lamp, possibly by the wick being badly adjusted when the lamp was in use. I think the two horizontal lines on the glass in your middle picture indicate the maximum size the flame should be for clean burning and 7+ days endurance.
    The bolt holding on the pyrometer is probably a Whitworth thread, but the electrical connections are most likely to be BA size - 2 & 4 BA treads are very common in signal bits and pieces. (Very tidy job on the Adlake by the way; regrettably the one we have at St Albans South is missing the pyrometer.)
     
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  15. burgerbern

    burgerbern New Member

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    Recovery going slowly but getting there, but not allowed to lift anything heavy, not even allowed to carry a shopping bag or drive for the first few weeks so it will be about 2 months before i will be allowed back on my other current project as it a pretty darn heavy GWR signal lever, i got it stripped down before the op but the next job neccesitates me holding the main body of the lever at waist height for a while as i put the handle at the top on the buffing wheel to get it back to its original smooth polished self (there is a pic of it in one of my other threads on here) the only other current project is a fancy 1917 NBR signal interior lamp (the NBR equivelent to the adlake 55/4) but i need to make up a wooden template to bend a sheet of glass to the same radius as the glass i have for it as it needs 2 and only one was with it when i purchased it. so that will have to wait as well as i am banned from my workshop for the duration. The idea is to have a wooden template to lay a flat sheet of the correct size on and then use a propane torch to heat it up so it bends around the template, that is if the propane torch can get it hot enough to soften enough.

    i love railway lamps i have restored around 20 so far, generally the paint is so bad that i dip them in caustic soda for a couple of days to get rid of all the rust and paint in one foul swoop, shame i cannot do that the the aluminium plates as well but they would just dissolve away to nothing in the caustic.

    for my sins i also have a pair of class 458 headlamps, if i had realised how big they were in their housings i think i would not have bid on them.

    my wife just brought me a BR(E) fob watch for our forthcoming 45th wedding anniversary which according to a website listing Tissot serial numbers was made in 1949, keeps beautiful time
     
  16. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    I was taught that the flame should be no bigger than a thumbnail.
     

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