Tornado

According to the NNR website Tornado will not be ready to fulfil her commitments at the NNR at the end of May.

 

Tornado Details | News | Tornado | A1 Locomotives (a1steam.com)

 

Impossible to give this a like. I find it heartbreaking to see a freshly refurbished boiler being gutted of its brand new tubes. As for replacing more stays too, just what went right in Germany?

 

Didn’t the NNR have problems with a German boiler bodge job on the B12 many years ago ?

 

IIRC this was passed OK before shipment? So what has happened from ex works to the UK?
Has shipping caused the problems?

 

From reading the news article it appears that some stay replacement was planned but it seems that there was not the time to replace them all. Little surprise there in a post C19 world. As for the tubes we have not been told exactly what the objection was or how the installation of these new tubes differed from the installation of those previously fitted. It will be interesting to find out in due course.

 

I’ve no idea of what the problem is but we’re the tubes welded in? German and UK practice differs in the method of doing this.

 

I recall David Elliot saying that the method used to install the small tubes was different and he felt that this was a good thing because it altered the gas flow through the tubes. This alteration allowed more gases to flow through the flue tubes with a subsequent improvement in superheater performance. There are details which I do not know but I suspect that someone did not like German practice. Reason? We don't know but I wonder what exactly changed.

 

The problem is that as the engine operates in the UK, It has to comply with UK boiler regs, and the method of installing the tubes did not comply so the only option, is to cut out new, unused tubes, at great cost, obtain a complete new set, again at great cost, install them to comply with UK regs, those doing the work in Germany, should have been aware of the differing methods that need to be employed, for an engine that operates in the UK, as opposed to the EU.

 

There are no regulations other than compliance with the Pressure Systems Regulations which is silent on the subject. It is down to the opinion of the Competent Person who essentially signs it off. However, there is a British Standard for welded boilers which gives details on tube installation and quality and compliance with this is usually the accepted methodology. There is no standard for steam locomotive boilers of conventional riveted construction which is why the HRA issue guidance notes.

 

Could you please quote a source for this assertion. I don't believe the A1 Trust have confirmed the actual problem with the tubes.

 

Fantasy...I think the source...

 

Regarding the stays, if they needed replacing I don’t see doing that here, rather than there, significantly alters the overhaul programme? It probably entails an additional hydraulic test too, which would delay the steam test.

As you say, the same boiler has already been tubed twice in the past (once when new, and again at the first 7 year overhaul), so what’s different this time? I doubt it’s another ‘Brexit benefit’, so what’s gone on?

And while we’re on the subject of boilers, what’s the status of the two long overdue new boilers (and their tubes), bearing in mind the first one was destined for Tornado’s overhaul, which could have obviated this whole tube & stay issue?


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The situation has alarming similarities to Aussie 3801's boiler issues.

Having seen the boiler at first hand, i cannot believe that Meineghan allowed it out of the works in that condition.

I can only assume a heavy knock in transit, or similar to cause the issue, did they use Evri to move it.....

 

Why else remove the entire set of tubes, then?? Its not something you would normally do, unless you had to, they are brand new for god's sake, have you ever worked on a steam loco? and fantasy, really, once you cut out tubes, you unless you can weld on new flue ends, which i'm not even sure is allowed now, the tubes are scrap, perhaps a boilersmith can back me up on this, the staining looked to be around the flue and smoke tubes, not the tube plate there has been no mention of work needed on the tube plate itself .

 

Maybe there has been a flaw found in the tube material? Maybe a treatment was applied that shouldn't have been. Maybe the weld material was incorrect. We simply don't know, so you can't make statements as though you do.

Yes, although I don't see what that's got to do with anything.
If you're putting forward your opinion as fact without any statement from the Trust to back you up, then why would it matter if I've worked on a steam loco????

 

Does the "Red Book" still rule, Steve?

 

If they did, they'd still be looking for it in a depot...

 

On arrival in the U.K., and following inspection by British Engineering Services, there has been a concern around the quality and installation of the small tubes in Tornado's boiler. At present we are not able to confirm if this is a material or welding issue so all parties (A1SLT, DB Meiningen and BES) have agreed that the most expeditious action is to replace the small tubes whilst we investigate the issue. This approach will not only ensure continued quality and reliability but will be the fastest route to complete the boiler ready for installation on the frames.

Source 21st century steam ( afka A1SLT) news page February 2023. Doesnt confirm what the problem with the tubes is, only that there is a problem perhaps its a case of being diplomatically vague...

 

Exactly. I had previously read that statement on the A1 website and could find no definitive cause mentioned.
That's why I took issue with Martin's assertion that it was definitely the method of installing the tubes, when none of us actually know.