Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.
Is this the same as FS is having ?
Might deter a few trespassers....
and hopefully produce some interesting YouTube footage.
The image quality looks pretty damned good! I can see a good few trespass prosecutions coming about, on photographic evidence. And it's far more than circumstantial evidence too!
Ability to livestream it would be good at some stage...
Is forward faving cctv already installed on other mainline locos or units? I’m wondering how that squares with the requirement to make the public aware of locations where cctv is being recorded? Presumably someone has already tackled that problem and come up with a legally compliant mechanism?
Headboard with a CCTV logo on it.
If you check RAIB Reports many of them feature photos from fwd facing cameras
Yes, a lot of mainline units are fitted with FFCCTV. No idea how the legislation works, but I know, as fitters, we're not meant to be able to view recorded images, only the live feed for maintenance purposes - clarity, positioning, whether it's actually recording, etc. Same as we check on the saloon CCTV.
Live streaming would almost certainly be a no go. Say someone jumped in front of the train, or got hit by another coming the other way. Even if there was a delay in broadcasting the footage, you'd need someone sitting there the whole time watching it.
Even filming for later broadcast would be questionable - the protocols around FFCCTV are pretty strong, and confusing FFCCTV with filming for other purposes would open up many cans of worms.
How does that affect Dash Cams then???
The footage is/could be used for similar purposes???
You may well ask. And I suspect at some point, that point will be expensively clarified when a dashcam video is shared and the person featured objects.
Is the law different, given that any individual can buy a dashcam for personal use but there's relatively few companies operating trains.
There's already a considerable amount of footage on Yewtewb taken by motorists/cyclists. I doubt that many folk featured in the footage were asked if they wanted to be featured. That self-important cycling maniac (he featured in a Ch5 programme the other night) in London who goes round stitching people up, never asks his "victims" if they object to being featured.
All these issues surrounding the use of FFCCTV on rail vehicles are interesting enough for their own thread?
I suspect that Dash Cams are more difficult to control as they are added to vehicles by individuals in an environment with minimum monitoring and regulation whereas railway vehicles are more controllable whether on heritage or main line operation. although expensive I believe also that Dash Cams are "controlled"through Civil Law whereby anyone affected by Dash Cam footage has recourse through solicitors / barristers.
I think you'll find that data protection law renders both those points moot. https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/domestic-cctv-systems-guidance-for-people-using-cctv/ is quite interetsing on the principles for personal CCTV (it's for houses, but I'd be very surprised if it isn't equally applicable to vehicles) - as I say, I suspect the issue is that no one has yet gone to law about being featured. Tornado is operated by a company, so the CCTV will be subject to registration with the ICO which will limit the purposes for which that CCTV can be used, meaning that they would be subject to criminal sanctions if they use it for other purposes.
I'm afraid I disagree with your assumption - I think that Dash Cams are a grey area that has been over-looked - possibly because some people have assumed the same as you that Domestic CCTV information covers this area. Whilst uncertain about the full legal situation I note the increasing appeals by police for any Dash Cam footage which suggests that its usage - and limitations - is still surrounded by confusion
I think it was fitted some time ago to English Electric Class 20 BO BOs for a better look out when they were running cab trailing.
I'm no expert on the subject but aren't dashcams the equivalent of a video camera? My understanding as that, if it is in a public place then it is perfectly acceptable to take both video and photographs which include people as long a it doesn't become an invasion of privacy. If it isn't, there are a lot of people on Nat Pres (and elsewhere) breaking the law.
CCTV is different because you are being/can be covertly watched.
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