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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. Dexter

    Dexter New Member

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    The loco is being thrashed.

    And watch the video, it IS leaking. End of story. Ever thought of the possibility it was repaired, or deemed not serious enough to fail FTR?
     
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  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Ever thought you’re talking rubbish?
     
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  3. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    Do tell us your engineering prowess and extensive experience driving steam locos. We who have been there over a long time obviously have much to learn.
     
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  4. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sorry my mistake, I read somewhere that it was the right hand side and I thought the convention was that right and left were as looking from the footplate.
     
  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The "thrash" post brings to mind many years ago when somebody on the NVR was complaining about 60800 being driven "too hard." We had a former March man in our ranks and his reply went along the lines of "if you think that's being driven too hard, you have no idea how hard we drove them in BR days."
     
  6. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I once had the privilege of meeting a former March driver when Mrs. TGH was first in hospital, now some eleven years ago. He was a friend of Jimmy Nightall :(
     
  7. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thrashed? Absolutely not! Have you ever been to Yarwell?
     
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  8. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Whilst I will always bow to the far superior knowledge of people like @Steve , @LMS2968 and @Spamcan81 , and I agree that it's ludicrous that a 90mph express ECML loco could be considered to be being thrashed on a 25mph line with a few wagons behind, there does appear to me be some steam coming from the front cylinder cover nearest the camera when it emerges from the tunnel? If folk say it doesn't matter then fine, but it does look like there was some leakage there.
     
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  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you watch the video from the beginning, you will notice that small leak is there in the first sequence as the loco pulls out of Wansford. I'd argue therefore that whatever has caused that leak, it's not way the loco was driven during the run past in question. Seems not to be there in later runpasts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Part of the furniture

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    Thanks, I wasn't suggesting that it was a result of any particular driving style, merely that it was there.
     
  11. W.Williams

    W.Williams Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. My gripe is leaving them on long after they need to be when starting the train. Stopping and sitting. Fine. 10+ cycles after a restart. No.

    Yes, its amazing how Tornado seems to make people feral on here. Why she gets so much scrutiny and baseless p... chucked her way I will never know.
     
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  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Didn't think for a minute that you were. No doubting that the leak is there but using the video as evidence would suggest that a) it was intermittent and b) was there before the alleged thrashing sequence.
     
  13. 32110

    32110 Member

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    Could it be that the combination lever had had this fault for some time and that the bush has slowly worn and that caused the more detailed exam that showed up the real fault?
     
  14. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    From my experience as a steam driver you leave the drain cocks open for as long as is required, shutting them after a set number of revolutions regardless is a recipe for damage.
     
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  15. CIBoatExpress

    CIBoatExpress New Member

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    "....as long as is required...."? Please explain.
     
  16. Kylchap

    Kylchap Member

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    I don't have the depth of knowledge to comment on the consequences of priming or how the bush may have become worn, nor about driving style, but I do have an observation and question for those of you who have greater knowledge than I do.

    In the video, Tornado is making far more noise and belching out far more exhaust than I would expect from a class 8 loco hauling a light load at low speed, even when accelerating. Is it likely that the driver is using a longer cut-off than necessary, deliberately driving in an uneconomic fashion, in order to produce the desired effects for the photo charter? I'm not commenting on whether the loco is being abused, just wondering how long it would take to empty the boiler!
     
  17. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    Until the front end is "dry".....i.e. there isn't water (just steam) at the drain cocks or chimney (when the cocks are shut).

    Depending on the loco and service you might not need to open the cocks again all day, or you might need to have them open whenever stationary. You might need to do a few revolutions of the wheel to dry it out, or half a trip. It all depends really. There's no rule that could (or should) be written.
     
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  18. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Your assessment of what the driver was doing is probably correct but as it’s only being driven like that for a couple of hundred yards water usage is not a problem. What the fireman thinks of the way it rips his fire apart is another matter.
     
  19. 21B

    21B Well-Known Member

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    The loco is being driven fairly smartly I would say, but there is no hint of slipping, so it is being driven within the adhesion limits of the day. In the shot leaving the tunnel the loco is in pretty much full gear as it passes the camera and this would make it sound very loud. The regulator setting though is probably not all that great, but even if full given the lack of a trace of a slip and the lightness of the load I dont see there is a problem. The loco does not appear to be priming in the video, though leaving the tunnel the front end may be a little cold there is very unlikely to be much if any water kicking around after the first few revolutions. Of course the driver was being uneconomic....when did you ever see a service train back up and repeat a section of line over and over for the hell of it?

    I don't recommend it, but in the right conditions, with a sensible amount of space in the glass and a "dry" front end, full gear, full regulator "take offs" will do no harm to a locomotive, just dont then slip, and dont try it with a full pot, and and and.... there is skill in driving a steam engine ;)

    How long would it take to empty the boiler? With that load on that railway (forgive me NVR chaps) which is flat...infinity pretty much, as long as the fireman kept shovelling, the determining factor would be the length of the line and the amount of coal in the tender.
     
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  20. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Thrash is a very subjective word. What constitutes thrash? A steam loco has a safe working pressure. It is designed to operate at that pressure. You can't get any more than that in the cylinder so you can't create a higher force than design. That's the 'tractive effort' of the locomotive. If the rail adhesion conditions allow there is no detriment to using that tractive effort as speed increases. Depending on the load, you might get a quite rapid acceleration but that is of no detriment to the locomotive. You are simply using the loco at its maximum designed capability. At some point as you accelerate you will start to overcome the locos ability to produce sufficient steam but you have never overloaded it. In my experience the railway enthusiast will say a loco is being thrashed if it is making a lot of noise at the chimney but the reality is it is a load of rubbish.
    As for steam leaks, it's pretty rare to see a steam loco without a slight whiff of steam from somewhere and it always has been, even with new locomotives. Depending on what they are and how severe will determine whether a loco is failed.
     
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