Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by TorbayTrains, Dec 30, 2015.
This coal problem has to be sorted!
Reported to have arrived at Bristol TM at 21:04 (about 10 late).
Well it's not the first time that a DB crew have had problems with Royal Scot, or are we not allowed to say anything that might be slightly disparaging about them?
My footage of the dramatic day of Royal Scot. Filmed at Newton St Loe, Berkley Marsh, Whiteball (Restart) and Waterside in Paignton. Hope you enjoy.
Here’s my video, taken at Whiteball and Tiverton Parkway.
Plenty of WCRC outings with 46115 haven't exactly gone to plan...
Cheap shot?? If so, then worthless. And if so, then at best "a bit churlish" (26D_M post 43). Or at worst, beneath contempt. I wonder what the crew would think.
Hopefully though, this is just a wholly-to-be-expected playful jibe from a wholly-to-be-expected source.
That re-start on Whiteball was rather impressive and nicely controlled. It's 1 in 90 steepening to 1 in 80 westbound. Thanks for being there to capture the moment. As for the comments about the shape of the fire in the box of a Scot, why it stopped on Whiteball and related TOC matters, I find it amazing that even when what is presumably first hand information is passed back to the train (wasn't there an on board announcement?) about what was going on and why, people see fit to make more of it than is necessary.
Very occasionally, first hand information is shared on here to give an insight into a few of the on-the-road issues that can arise about which we would otherwise be unaware. (For example, there is an interesting piece in the current HR No. 217 involving Tornado on the ECML and what can happen when you have a schedule that only allows you to drift along for mile after mile.) There are many reasons why things may not turn out as planned. Long layover periods in loops, unnecessarily relaxed paths and a fire in the locomotive for too long without the opportunity to clean it properly are just a few. Add to that unpredictable coal (and at times, possibly wrong/cheap coal) and it's not surprising that hiccups can occur. For DBC crews, this is their 'day-job'; it just happens to be on a steam locomotive. So presumably the requirement to work professionally, safely and without delay is exactly the same as when they are on a Cl66 freight.
I find the few comments we get from loco crews to be massively informative. Whether they should say anything at all or choose to, is obviously up to them but you can guarantee that nobody linked to either WCRC or DBC will bother if it leads to 'the wrong kind of comment' on here. That will be our loss, surely?
Our attempt at a video, to be honest I think Lydham Manor is the star of this one!
As always the speculation and posts have elements of truth and so I thought I'd post this report on the train. The coal was Welsh Steam Coal, fairly soft, decent sized and not expected to give any problems. The start from BTM in the hands of Graham Ward with Steve Rodenhurst his fireman and Geoff Ewens TI was decent enough with 11. The Scot reached the unofficial target of 40 mph by St Anne's Tunnel. Foxes Wood Tunnel was entered at 49 and left at 52. The top speed of was only 56 on the way to Bath, probably due to us following 5 mins behind the first London. Graham accelerated the train off Bathampton Jn, passed at 35, up the gentle climb to Freshford, reaching 58 3 miles later under Dundas Aqueduct, a speed held through Freshford and Avoncliff before a red signal stopped us at Bradford-on Avon, apparently due to an issue with the gated crossing. The Trowbridge departure was good on the bottom gentle slopes but we did lose 7/8 mph on the 1 in 178/120 section. The Scot was going well and we hit the bottom of the 2 miles of 1 in 151 at 45 and accelerated up it, reaching 48 before Clink Road Jn. The changing grades towards Brewham saw speeds rise to 65, falling slowly to 60 then to 59 approaching East Somerset Jn on the almost mile of 1 in 112. The remaining climb to Brewham saw speed fall to 53 on the near mile of 1 in 107, the summit passed at 52. Not a bad climb at all.
There was good running to Castle Cary, mostly low 70s, Cary passed at 70. The 2 miles of 1 in 330 around Keiron Mandeville was approached at 70 and topped at 64. The Scot's speed increased to 74 down the 1 in 264, and dropped to 69 at the summit of the just over a mile of 1 in 264 at Somerton. The Scot was running well though we dropped 7 mph on the mile of 1 in 330 after Athelney. We were a little surprised that speeds remained in the low to mid 60s against green signals through to Cogload and to MP 161, 2 miles from Taunton. Those watching RTT or OTT would have noticed we arrived 12 minutes early, the MK timers providing very slack outward timings to Taunton the result of which was the crew being faced with the prospect of a 50 minute stand with a narrow firebox, just what you don't need with Whiteball beckoning. At Taunton the crew said she was going alright though sometimes she didn't seem to be 'using' the steam raised that well. We were allowed out 4 minutes early and it was apparent by Victory LC, passed at only 50 mph that the fire wasn't coming around as much as they would have liked. We were in a bit of trouble approaching Wellington where speed had dropped from 46 to 41 on the mile and a bit of 1 in 174. There was virtually no pick over the level stretch at Wellington, passed at 40, whereas on most TBEs this would be over 60. The foot of 'Whiteball Proper', coming off the half mile of 1 in 288/133, was only passed at 36 and the speed loss on the mile of 1 in 90 was rapid, falling to 21 at the start of the 3/4 miles of 1 in 86. This was 'topped' at 4mph at which point the brakes kicked in. After a 12 minute stop we restarted and entered Whiteball Tunnel at almost 13 after 2 big slips on the curve. The summit at MP174 was passed at 27.
The acceleration across the top was fine and we sped through Tiverton Parkway at 74 with a max of 77 passing the loop - making a point perhaps! Strangely with green signals we hardly romped down the bank, speeds being in the high 60s/low 70s. The 'Exminster challenge' saw us pass the site of the old box at 67, 70 ish is the 'norm'. The run through Starcross was muted, 58, passing through the Warren at 60 against greens. We didn't know what to expect after Newton Abbot but the climb of Kingskerswell Bank was good, 46 at the bottom of the almost 2 miles of 1 in 110, cresting the summit at 36. We had no problem with the short 1/4 mile 1 in 56 after Torquay speed only falling from 40 to 35.
The Dartmouth Crew, who were handling the Scot for the first time, passed Goodrington at a smidgen over 25, and topped the mile and a half of 1 in 71 at 19. Broadsands (1 in 93) was crossed at 19 but speed fell quite rapidly to 8 mph on the final mile of 1 in 60 to Churston. We stopped in the station - at Kingswear they told us it was, as expected, to fill the boiler after mortgaging it on the climb. We were told at Kingswear that the fire had been a bit 'over-prepared' at Taunton, with a raised 'haycock' centre that didn't burn through very quickly but was OK after the restart.
The Dartmouth Crew did a good job on the return to get the Scot into Greenway at 23 and Churston was approached at 22. A slow changeover led to a late departure from Paignton. The crew on the return was Driver Vince Henderson, fireman (?) Mathews and TI Tommy Rees. After a steady start Vince accelerated the train to 34 on the short climb to Torquay. Speed fell from 30 at the foot of the mile of 1 in 56 to 22 through Torre, and further to 19 at the summit of the 3/4 mile of 1 in 73. Not brilliant but OK. It was after this climb that the Scot was noticeably lacklustre, failing to pick up speed as expected. Despite being late and having a London less than 5 minutes behind us and green signals, speed got no higher than 53 between Newton Abbot and Teignmouth. We drifted through Dawlish at 36 against green signals and the normal rapid acceleration off the Warren towards Starcross didn't happen, the latter passed at only 49. After Starcross we normally run close to 75 all the way to Exeter Jn but the our speed didn't get above 52.
Exeter panel let us through the station despite us already holding up the London by some 10 minutes. For those trackside it must have been evident that there were issues up front as speed only got as high as 48 just past Stoke Canon. We passed Cullompton at 46 after which speed dropped rapidly on the 1 in 155 to 15 at MP180. We struggled into Tiverton Loop to let the London - now 22 minutes late, and the Leeds, 5 minutes down - past. After a 19 minute stop we left the loop noisily with a full head of steam and topped the mile of 1 in 216 at 45. Speed rose to 47 through Parkway Station and to just under 50 at the foot of the 2 1/4 miles of 1 in 115 to the summit. It really was a good climb. The site of Burlescome was passed at 43, the summit at 41.7. We didn't romp down the bank considering how late we were, max was only 71. By the time I walked up to the front from Coach 10, the crew were doing a bit of head shaking and Tommy was on the phone to control. I asked Vince what the problem was and he said it wasn't with the coal or raising steam but the lack of power being consistently put down by the Scot. I asked him what he thought were the chances of getting over Somerton and Bruton at any kind of speed. His answer was 'no chance' and that they'd effectively declared the Scot a 'failure'. Tommy was calling for a diesel to assist them back to Bristol, assuming they were going back via Westbury to set down passengers there and at Bath. As we thought that was that we caught the 0752 Cross Country back to BTM.
We sort of guessed the diesel couldn't have arrived and been attached to the front of the train by the departure time of 2007 but that's life. When we left there was no indication the train would be rerouted via Bridgwater. The 57 minutes from Taunton to BTM wasn't bad so the Scot must have 'recovered'. Anyone got any times/speeds?
Not a great first Torbay Express for the Scot and I guess we'll know if there is a mechanical problem in the next few days. Hopefully it's nothing that will require a return to the works in Crewe as we're booked on next weeks as well!
Thanks for the correct perspective. So a loco not always responding as expected was the main issue. It seems the crew handled a tricky situation very well.
Why would anyone say anything disparaging about them as there have been no FACTS posted to back up this rather tenuous piece of innuendo.
As has been posted earlier do you not wonder why people who actually know what is happening, people who actually do the job don't bother to post on here more regularly, or, as far as I can ascertain, even bother to look at NP any more?
It sometimes appears that this forum has become simply a repository for the ramblings of conspiracy theorists, which I'm sure is not what was intended.
Does this really need to turn into my TOC is better than yours ?, both of them have loco problems occasionally so I really don't see what's being achieved here.
Thanks @1020 Shireman
Interesting both crews felt that the she wasn't consistently putting down the power. Clearly she has it witness the restart on Whiteball . Daft question but one for the more experienced among the membership , is this the valve settings or Regulator , maybe just not enough steam passing to the Cylinders ?
I didn't read it that way , more a question rather than a dig . Trouble is reading is all too often left to interpretation with no vocal or facial nuances to guide the reader
Steve Matthews is your missing Fireman.
My video from yesterday, as well as a few photos... the video locations are Cogload Junction, the restart on Whiteball (stood next to @Hemerdon I believe? Sorry Keith, I didn't realise it was yourself I was stood next to!) and Broadsands on the outward, Churston and Paignton during the turning/servicing movements, Greenway Halt and Pugham Farm foot crossing.
Stills-wise, Broadsands Viaduct twice and Kingswear twice...
If there is an issue with 46100, could we see 60163 head over as it's not booked for anything.
Broken piston rings ?You need a well trained ear and good knowledge of a that type of loco to spot this, a continuous blow up the chimney past the rings can be heard. Coal and water consumption well up.Steaming no problem except when working hard .Its like having the blower on full all the time. Slipping could also be above normal due to unequal power.
Thanks to Shireman for your in depth report. Its such a pity when people come on here slagging off TOC's and others. The DBS crews are nothing less than professional I have always found and all the negativity surrounding this is not helpful to anyone. Yes there seemed to be some problems yesterday as spotted soley from the lineside but the trip was completed and fair play to the DB crews who probably had a less than wonderful day as indeed the support crew also, concerned for their engine. This loco performed well dring its GB stint earlier in the year and I am looking forward to its coming runs.
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