If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Ton up Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by MarkinDurham, Apr 12, 2017.

  1. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,991
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Occupation:
    A Thingy...
    Probably miscounted as I started counting when the first few carriages had already passed- got caught up in the moment. Headline news on Look North.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Whether vac or air braked, the maximum brake force that can be applied is determined by the adhesion coefficient between wheel and rail. Both vac and air braked stock are designed with this in mind. Propagation of a brake application down the train is a critical function and this is where air has the upper hand over vacuum. Even with DA valves, vacuum is relatively slow to create a full application throughout the train.
     
    guycarr360, Sheff, Johnb and 2 others like this.
  3. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,596
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Had a hectic day today and have only had time this evening to properly catch up with last nights events. My jaw literally dropped when I read the report during my lunch break :Jawdrop:
    What a fantastic achievement for the wonderful team behind this magnificent loco. I must admit there was something in my eye when I watched the report on the BBC news this evening. The reaction of the folks travelling behind 60163 when she hits 100 says it all really. Congratulations to all involved for this landmark event in ML steam operations.
    **Max Speed now reported to have been 101.6 mph**:Woot:
    I found this superb BBC report from Tom Ingall which has now been posted on YouTube. Sit back and enjoy:


    There is due to be a documentary about this run on the BBC next month.
    Also can one of the mods change the name of this thread to Ton up Tornado? :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
  4. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    I don't have much to add apart from fantastic stuff!!! One of those legendary days for preservation.
     
  5. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    Seems a good idea - done ;)
     
    S.A.C. Martin and green five like this.
  6. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,596
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thank you Sir!
     
    S.A.C. Martin likes this.
  7. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Thanks for that explanation.
     
  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,330
    Likes Received:
    11,667
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    After a bit of traipsing through iplayer I found the Look North piece, and watched with a huge grin on my face! All I can think of is the old saying 'Miracles we can achieve, the impossible takes just a bit longer'
     
    Gav106 likes this.
  9. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    I have details of no less than 100 occasions in 1967 alone where 90 mph or more was recorded at least once on a run and the total number of times 100 mph or more was recorded from 1965 to the end was 12, of which I recorded 6. Full details in my forthcoming book Twilight of Southern Steam, a substantial volume to be published by Pen & Sword in June
     
    ragl, Martin Perry and 30567 like this.
  10. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,576
    Likes Received:
    545
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Brilliant stuff. A great achievement by the A1 Trust. Put a smile on face when I heard the news. Hopefully the documentary mentioned is shown nationwide.
     
    green five likes this.
  11. jtx

    jtx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    855
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Happily retired
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Wonderful achievement by the A1 boys and girls. They made no secret of their desire to run at 90 and they have done it, after some, presumably, intricate negotiations with the various "powers - that - be."

    Those same powers are obviously happy, or the event would have not occurred. The run will no doubt be analysed to death by the various recording devices used, (not to mention the Railway press!), however, this was not showboating; this was demonstrating that "we can do what we are asking you to allow us to do."

    A bunch of very smart people have organised a demonstration that has proven to those who needed to be convinced, that their machine can do what is claimed and expected, not just once, but repeatedly. The publicity is brilliant and justified, but the real impressions were for those in power behind the scenes.

    The Network is in a win-win situation here; as someone once said, "Steam warms the market." If they can better fit into crowded paths and operate with the confidence of controllers, everyone benefits. To the best of my knowledge, none of them run at a loss to the Network.

    As for others; all the Pacifics can do the same; there are plenty of documented 90mph runs from many years ago. The most recent steam - era runs being the Bulleid Pacifics in 1966 and 1967, of which I have several good personal memories.

    The A3s and A4s were very fast machines in the right hands and, more importantly, with the right loads; you can't expect a crew to break any records with 15, 16, or 17 coaches in tow, likewise the Duchesses: the main limiting factor being the gradients and the prodigious loads they frequently pulled, particularly on the night sleepers, when 18 coaches was not unusual.

    12 - car trains are fairly common these days, particularly dahn sarf, but they tend to have numerous traction motors distributed throughout; the only loco - hauled trains of that length tend to be steam - hauled!

    Lest anyone think I have omitted another well - known pre - Nationalistaion company, I saved them to the last because they did not have any Pacifics; however, Castle class 4-6-0s were documented in the 1930s at speeds in the high 80s and above, (17% apparently being the favoured cutoff setting), particularly through the Thames Valley and were well - known to be fleet of foot. I believe this has recently been reinforced with one or two runs in preservation.

    Kings tended to suffer the same as Duchesses in that their prodigious haulage powers were used to the max, although I recall that Adrian Vaughan reckons one was recorded at 105mph through Lavington in the late 50s.

    As someone above pointed out, they now have to prove their case if they want the same privilege as Tornado.

    Good Luck to them all!

    Regards,

    jtx
     
  12. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bristol
    Agreed
     
  13. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bristol
    I was lucky to be on both the no.9 and Hamilton trips. Still have my detailed notebooks. I remember them as a 95 in '95 and a 96 in '96.

    Re 46229 Vale of White Horse IIRC timing mileposts from the droplights this was no more than high 80s.

    Looking forward to 60163 at 90.
     
    1020 Shireman and green five like this.
  14. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    What sort of HP would have been needed to run at 100mph?
     
  15. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,569
    Likes Received:
    2,346
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer & Heritage Volunteer
    Location:
    N Warks
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    To @The Black Hat - I've no idea where you get that chip on your shoulder from, but I've neither seen nor heard anything from the A1 Trust saying, or even inferring, that no other loco owners have a right to request to run at 90mph.

    There are however, sound engineering reasons why Tornado may have been selected for this (over and above the A1 Trust's desire to operate at this speed).

    These include roller bearings on all axles, high-precision wheel balancing, fully traceable materials, on board power generation, high-powered LED headlamps and standby air pump.

    I'm sure any other loco similarly engineered would have little difficulty in undergoing the same tests - IF that's what the owner desired.
     
    jtx, guycarr360, MellishR and 6 others like this.
  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,186
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I seem to remember that there was a desire to run over 75 with Clan Line some years ago...................

    The problem then was that RES/EWS didn't support the proposal so it failed at the first hurdle
     
    Alpha1 likes this.
  17. ajay9014

    ajay9014 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    22
    Removed with apologies to Tim, I didn't mean to offend.

    Regards

    Andrew.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  18. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,576
    Likes Received:
    545
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Brick Machine Operator
    Location:
    Haywards Heath
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm sure in a recent issue of Steam Railway they said the MNLPS were taking a look at doing 90mph again. Given that DBS (or DBC now) have done 4464 and now 60163 there's a good chance of 35028 doing it as well
     
  19. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    4,665
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    An interesting part of the film piece was a quick shot of a screen which suggests that there was a *lot* of instrumentation and data logging going on. Might I guess that a key part of the exercise will have been to gather a good deal of data for their VAMPIRE vehicle dynamics modelling?
     
  20. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    11,049
    Likes Received:
    4,319
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the precedent that was set by Bittern on her 9o MPH test runs probably easing the way for the A1 lot & who's not to say she didn't hit the ton as a matter of course?....... we know she almost did it on the actual runs on the ECML, but was eased off as she just wanted to fly.

    And that's from a Loco turned out in '37! :)

    But fair play to the A1 trust for the publicity they've generated for steam in general - between 60103 & 60163 in recent weeks they seem to have made the media hark back to to good Ol' days & long may it continue!
     

Share This Page