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Thefts and Vandalism

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by rough-shunter, Dec 26, 2006.

  1. Wenlock

    Wenlock Member Friend

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    Reports on Facebook of arson and vandalism at the East Kent Railway last night.

    (I can't find a non-Facebook link to post)

    Reported loss/damage of buildings/tools/generator and restored artefacts, but no damage to vehicles.
     
  2. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Post the Facebook link ? Ta
     
  3. free2grice

    free2grice Well-Known Member Friend

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  4. D1002

    D1002 Well-Known Member

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  5. Wenlock

    Wenlock Member Friend

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    I have received an appeal email from the HRA

    It appears the HRA are coordinating the appeal.

    (I have deleted the link due to HRA's use of mail chimp.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  6. weltrol

    weltrol Member Friend

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    With the suspension of schools for the indefinite future, there are going to be lots of bored kids out there looking for something to do. Sadly, some of them will think that trespass and vandalism is an 'okay' thing to do, especially if they plaster it all over social media. If at all possible, ensure there is adequate protection for your assets, even if means asking for volunteers to 'guard' stored coaching stock and station buildings. A deterrent is better than arake of vandalised coaches or a ransacked station.
     
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  7. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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    All sites to be guarded by posters on WSR related threads who will scare intruders off with no difficulty
     
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  8. daveannjon

    daveannjon Member

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    Report on WNXX of a break in at the ELR last Friday with £10k of non-ferrous items stolen.

    Dave
     
  9. garth manor

    garth manor Member

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    East Lancs Railway

    @eastlancsrly

    ·
    3h

    Last Friday night thieves stole up to £10,000 worth of brass and copper fittings. This couldn’t have come at a worse time for us. Again we are asking for support, with your help, we can all get through this together! Donate: https://bit.ly/3afEGj7
     
  10. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I feared this would happen as railways are virtually abandoned
     
  11. weltrol

    weltrol Member Friend

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    See post 306 above.....
     
  12. Wagoniester

    Wagoniester New Member

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    The fact it is Brass and Copper, valuable metals, would suggest it was more someone who knew what they were after and what it was worth than a random chance taking?

    I'm always curious though that after such thefts there are appeals to cover the cost of replacing items - does insurance not cover this? Genuinely not aware of what the policies are on this so a question being asked for educational purposes!
     
  13. big.stu

    big.stu Member

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  14. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering about the same thing. This question was raised three weeks ago but nobody has attempted to answer yet.
    No doubt policies will vary a bit from railway to railway, and it is not the sort of insurance that would be handled by General Insurers. From memory the HRA offers some options but are there particular Brokers or one set of underwriters who specialize in this kind of cover ? What sort of coverage options are there ? What excesses apply ?
    Anybody ?
     
  15. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think you will find that theft and vandalism cover will be quite restricted for anything stored in the open, either that or the cost will be quite prohibitive. The problem is that most railways are fairly open when it comes to access and even if there was CCTV surveillance, in a rural area like this, the perpetrators are likely to be long gone by the Tim the police arrive
     
  16. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    We can reasonably assume that, John, but I think both Wagoniester and I were asking for some actual indications of the cover and costs involved.
    Additionally, if groups consider premiums too expensive for certain kinds of cover, what provision do they make to cover losses themselves, or do they just wing it and hope for the best ?
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    According to the loss adjuster who investigated an arson attack I was involved with claiming for, the only locomotive insured for its full replacement value is Flying Scotsman but, if everything was insured for its replacement value, railways would not be able to afford the premiums. How true that is, I don't know. The usual approach is for railways to itemise all that they want covering and put a limiting value on that. Quite simply, the higher the cover, the higher the premium. With locos, unless the boiler explodes, you are unlikely to have to replace it so you need to look at the likely happenings. Low water in a boiler is one, a smashed cylinder is another. Individual items of rolling stock are usually listed and a value placed on it. Those that you don't need are likely to be given a lesser value than those that are critical to the railways operation. I was involved with a wagon that was involved in an incident. The insured value was £9K. We could have rebuilt it for that using volunteer labour but decided to have it done commercially and the repair was £16K. Like all insurance, there are peripherals to think about. What is the excess on any claim? You can generally name your own excess levels and the higher they are, the less your premium will be. There is also the inevitable fact that, if you make a claim, your premiums will rise at the next renewal.
    The above is my experience. Not all policies will be the same and I suspect that there are railways which will only ensure for the minimum legal requirements of public liability and employees/volunteers liability. With regard to what to insure, you cannot afford to insure for everything and I always follow a bit of advice I was given many years ago. That is, quite simply, you only insure things that you cannot afford to replace and would want to.
     
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  18. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    Most insurers will do a risk assessment survey, it involves recommendations on security for reducing exposure to risk. They will charge for it but most will reimburse the cost as a discount on the premium, if you take up the recommendations. It’s a matter of going to your insurers, telling them what you want and asking what they can do. Unfortunately from an underwriting point of view wanting to insure a risk where you have just suffered a loss will be looked at rather harshly.
    One word of warning, if you take up the insurers recommended security measures they must be activated at all times or the cover will be invalidated. I have enough security on my home to earn a discount on the premium but I don’t claim it. If I did and say I nipped down the local shop without double deadlocking the front door or activating the window locks, I wouldn’t be able to claim if someone broke in.
     
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  19. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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    There is an old adage that if you can afford to pay for all the insurance you need then you don’t need it. Big corporations tend to self insure most things. I’m no expert in specialist cover for railways but the most cost effective way could be to insure everything under each schedule with a single item limit, as you say something like a locomotive is never going to be a total loss. When you say the premium will increase after a claim that all depends on what happened. If you have a fire in a building and you reinstate it with a sprinkler system, it might even go down! In the event of a claim the company will appoint a loss adjuster to negotiate the claim and possibly a claims surveyor to make some recommendations to reduce the risk for the future. I used to share an office with the latter and he was often being asked why he always assessed security inadequate when involved with a theft claim. The answer was always the same, if it was I wouldn’t be investigating this claim!
     
  20. Johnb

    Johnb Resident of Nat Pres

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