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The two repatriated A4's

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by charterplan, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. 5944

    5944 Part of the furniture

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    Same here. Preferably with a matching set of stock.
     
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    That would be the icing on the cake.
     
  3. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Part of the furniture

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    Including the beaver tail! :):)
     
  4. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick New Member

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    That's the "Coronation" stock. The "Silver Jubilee" sets didn't have an Obo.
     
  5. Jurasik

    Jurasik New Member

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    Now, if you could incorporate a few modern touches (roller bearings, computer calculated balancing of manufactured rotating masses) to make it even better, that would be something really special.
     
  6. Ralph

    Ralph New Member

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    I think the issue is that the prospective buyer isn't interested in a new build. If someone has the money and the passion then why not make an offer; the Americans of all people should understand that
     
  7. Ralph

    Ralph New Member

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    I would rather whoever it is funded the return to steam of J21 65033 but it's not my money..... boo hoo :)
     
  8. flaman

    flaman Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, Ralph. I think that it is well known that one of the main fears of the American and Canadian museums was that, once the locos got here, some people would campaign to keep them. That is why they were particularly insistent on having a cast iron legal agreement to ensure their return. It seems like bad form to keep plugging away at schemes intended to retain one or both of the locos in the knowledge that their owners have made it abundantly clear that they are not interested. The international dimension and the high profile of the matter on both sides of the pond mean that the potential for embarrassment outweighs any value that having yet another A4 would bring to Britain.
    The locos do an excellent job for us in their North American homes. It's difficult enough to find reminders of Britain's existence in Wisconsin, or in the mid-west generally, so anything that can provide such a reminder is good. In my opinion it is wrong to give Mr. Birley any encouragement.
     
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  9. Duty Druid

    Duty Druid Part of the furniture

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    D'oh!:rolleyes:
     
  10. keith6233

    keith6233 New Member

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    I would rather whoever it is funded the return to steam of J21 65033 but it's not my money..... boo hoo :)[/quote]




    I Think 65033 is now in Bury.
     
  11. agalpin

    agalpin New Member

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    I Think 65033 is now in Bury.[/quote]
    When did that leave Shildon? Or are you thinking of another 0-6-0?
     
  12. 46245col

    46245col New Member

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    When did that leave Shildon? Or are you thinking of another 0-6-0?[/quote]
    How about Blue Peter?
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    When did that leave Shildon? Or are you thinking of another 0-6-0?[/quote]


    65033 was originally at Beamish and then went to NNR IIRC in a deal that involved restoration to running order. No idea what's happened since.
     
  14. Ralph

    Ralph New Member

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    65033 is still at Shildon. It's owners and Kirkby Stephen East (Stainmore) are in the early stages of restoring it to base it at KSE.

    Bit off topic, but a lovely little engine I'd love someone to pump money into instead of an A4... but it ain't my cash.... boo hoo (again) :(
     
  15. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thanks for the update. So what happened to the deal involving the NNR - if there ever was one?
     
  16. oddsocks

    oddsocks Member

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    IIRC the deal involving the NNR also involved a Lottery Fund grant which in the event, was not forthcoming, something to do with some olympic games or somesuch.
     
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  17. Owd Sweedy

    Owd Sweedy New Member

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    That is very interesting, but I would just like to make a small but important amendment, D of C was not actually offered to Canada by British Railways Board, D of C was "withdrawn, to be sold for scrap". It was Dr Robert Nichols, president of the Canadian Railroad Historical Association (CRHA), who, when he heard that it had been condemned and was sitting on a scrap line in Darlington, being used as a parts donor, wrote to BRB and asked them if they would like to donate it to the CRHA's growing collection. This forthright approach had actually worked before, in 1961, when he had approached British Transport Commission, (as they then were) and asked if they would donate an old British locomotive to the new museum. The BTC very kindly obliged by donating the oldest one available, the ex LBSCR Terrier tank Waddon of 1875, which had just been retired as the Lancing works shunter. The BTC generously had it cosmetically restored at Eastleigh to full Stroudley livery and shipped to Canada! British Railways Board agreed to donate D of C but would not pay for any restoration work or shipping. They did tow it from Darlington to Crewe for free and also down to the docks in London, but they charged 1600. GB pounds for the cosmetic restoration, which was a lot of money in 1966. As Anthony Coulls will tell you, the recent restoration at Shildon found that "Crewe" had only applied one coat of primer and one of Brunswick green top coat. Little wonder it was staring to look shabby after 46 years. Incidentally Robert Nichols had always wanted it restored to its original, streamlined, Garter blue, as it is today, but the costs back then made it unrealistic, so he had to settle for BR green. So yes, technically, it was a gift from BR, in that we didn't actually pay scrap value for it, and Canada's centenary in 1967 became the official story, and the hook to get contributors, particularly Tate and Lyle, but had Dr Nichols not asked for it, and then set about raising the money to restore it, and shipping and dock yard handling etc, then it wouldn't be up in York today with the rest of the survivors. In my researches at Exporail I have seen a letter written in 1965 to Robert Nichols, by a friend of his, and a CRHA member, who happened to be on holiday in the UK. He had gone up to Darlington to have a look at this A4 that RN was so keen on getting. He was horrified at the state he found it in, chimney gone, cods mouth open other bit removed, he took a photo and wrote a hurried note saying "don't ask for this one, it a heap of scrap!" Fortunately for all of us, that advice was ignored!!
     
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  18. keith6233

    keith6233 New Member

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    I Think 65033 is now in Bury.[/quote]



    Sorry it's the J15 65426 at Bury.
     
  19. MRHloco

    MRHloco New Member

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    Re: The Worsdell Js

    Although I can't say I know or remember the whole story, I understand that the J15 is due for overhaul imminently and so is the J21, ultimately becoming the flagship engine for the Stainmore Project. Julian Birley evidently has a great plan in mind.

    Re: The Exported A4s

    I also reacted with mixed feelings to the news that there was a desire to keep those two engines here. You'd think, too, that seeing all six of them together in York last week would be enough to provoke the same private reaction.

    But, you know, I think I'd be happy for them both to go back. Even if they never return to Britain again (at least in our lifetime), I'll make a mental note to make a first ever visit to the US or Canada in years to come to find out how they're getting on. I get the feeling that the owners have plans for them - in particular, I'm keen to eventually see what Canada have planned for 4489. They won't let it degenerate back to that controversial state again. I'm certain of that now.

    As for Mr Birley's involvement, I don't condone it and I'm not fully in support of it either. He'll still have Alice, Winnifred and the J21, if the bid fails. I don't blame him for trying, though: I cannot tell you how utterly privileged I felt when I saw them all together.
     
  20. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    A bit of wartime spirit needed here..wave them off with a smile, whilst all the time hoping for a miracle that they may return one day(and keeping private your dreams that maybe they might not even board that boat at all)
     

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