The Talyllyn in trouble ?

It depends whether enough profit is made to compensate for the cost of running a complete train set, for if the Abergynolwyn stop "pause" were deleted, almost as frequent a service could be operated with two sets instead of three. Indeed I understand the Abergynolwyn operation has has periods when it actually lost money! One suspects that if a cold hard eye had been applied to the situation decades ago either the Nant Gwernol extension or the Aber. cafe would not have been built.

So "mothball" a locomotive and one carriage set, have only one loop between Pendre and Aber. and revert to divisible staff and ticket working in order to remove the need to maintain an internal telephone line for the single line token instruments. Who knows, that might save enough money to avoid having to price membership above the means of the vital younger generation.

 

...It may well be a shame that certain railways are suffering right now but it's no surprise and it's not their fault either, we are in a severe economic crisis which shows itself in many ways, some hard to detect. The downfall in passenger numbers probably has more to do with the price of fuel in an ever reducing family budget than the conditions of travel on the TR. If the TR is being hard hit then you can be sure that other railways are also, allthough they may not be quite so willing to let everyone know, i admire those who say when times are hard, i don't have any doubt whatsoever that the TR will pull itself out of this.

 

I am not saying the SVR is in trouble but looking at their passenger figures, they have had a hit in the last few years and they are near a huge urban area with millions on their doorstep to whom the SVR is an easyily accesable day trip out. Comapring the SVR to the TR may seem odd but the SVR daytripper market are probably the same people who in the past these people would also have made up much of the Tourism around the TR. Possibly there is some corrilation.

As for fund raising the SVR are looking for £4million by way of a share issue, the TR are looking for ongoing commitments. In reality buying shares in the SVR is a donation as you do not expect a dividend to be able to sell so it is just a question really that most railways need to fund raise to survive it just how you do it and how succesful you are at it. Is it really any different from how it used to be as when the TR started people would donate machines, engines, parts, etc, overhauls, repairs were donated by various firms, individuals. Now people are required to donate cash to cover these items as firms no longer in the main donate directly

 

Yes indeed you did. I think travelling on the Garratt was probably more comfortable than anything that the NWNGR built (or any replicas!). I always look for the vintage FR stock whenever I travel on the line.

 

The TR's declining passenger numbers pre-date this recession - and the 2 before this one. It's a trend that has been going on (with blips) for the best part of 40 years, so it is unrealistic to think that things will automatically improve if and when the general economy picks up.

 

I think the troubles at the Talyllyn are probably much more to do with the general economy, and the relative remoteness from centres of population, than anything to do with the rolling stock or lack of on-train buffet etc. After all, the ride isn't that long! My wife and I visited on our honeymoon a few years ago and the friendliness of the staff shone through - in marked contrast to a bigger line further north... Suffice to say we have paid a return visit since, but not to the other line. I only wish it wasn't a ten hour or so round trip to get there and back, else we would go more often.

As for fundraising: I'd caution against raising membership rates. Basically, fundraising is a numbers game. Not all your members will respond to any appeal for cash, but a proportion will - maybe between 5 and 20% might be a fair number to try to catch. So in that situation, being an organisation with, say, 10,000 members is a much better position to be in than only having 1,000. Given that, my feeling is that the strategy (for any railway, not just the TR) should be set membership prices at a realistic level to cover costs (magazines, admin etc) but try to get as many members who you can then target for additional donations; rather than setting membership prices so high that you make a good income from each member, but only attract a small number of members.

Tom

 

The return of some kind of economic confidence and bringing people back into this part of Mid-Wales will help the railway. Numbers have been declining for quite a long time but there is scope to go out and get more people to come and visit the railway. Tywyn doesn't really help the TR. It doesn't take much interest in it and the town is not one that's geared up towards tourism. I've been volunteering on the railway for 12 years and it's not changed and I think people who have been around longer than me would say the same.

The railway itself needs to be a bit more proactive. It's been very defensive in cutting costs a few years ago to try and avoid the current scenario but it's come back around again. It could do with a more positive marketing strategy and push itself harder. One thing I admire the F&WHR is how they get their message out and employ professionals - the TR doesn't do that. The membership also have to accept that the railway has to change as well. I don't think the correct way to go would be to automate the loops and close Abergynolwyn cafe but if the off-peak timetable was stripped back to 4 days a week then perhaps that might be a realistic way to operate the railway.

 

A significant number of passengers start their journeys from Abergynolwyn these days. If the station was unmanned, a lengthy stop would still be needed to issue tickets. It woud still be necessary to have a "toilet stop", and we all know what happens to these facilities if they are not supervised.
Three train working is only used in the peak season. I suspect that if the situation deteriorates further, 2-train working will become the maximum in future years. It isn't necessary to delete the "pause" at Aber in order to provide a reduced, but still sufficiently frequent, timetable.
As previously stated, many passengers appreciate the stop to "stretch their legs" and talk to the staff, bearing in mind the almost immediate turnaround at Nant Gwernol.
The new Aber station and Nant Gwernol extension were both built when the passenger figures were in excess of 100,000 p.a, and rising year-on-year.
I woud stress that the views expressed here are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of the TRPS or the railway.

 

You have hit the nail on the head there. We found ourselves at the Talyllyn in September while on the way back from a short break near Dolgellau. We considered doing an all line return from Abergynolwyn, but really couldn't justify the cost as the ticket is similarly priced to a Severn Valley return with the Talyllyn just half the length. Instead we brought a return to Dolgoch (still £5 rtn for 2 miles). As some one with a young family, whose wages have not risen in the last 4 years, unfortunately visiting heritage railways is a luxury which has to weighed up against everything else. With very limited disposable income, these days there has to be something extra going on or the opportunity to save some money to tempt me. Many railways now offer a discount to book in advance, online ticketing or discounts in conjunction with mainline rail tickets or other attractions. I used to visit the SVR many times a year but last year I think i only turned up for special events. This is not because I have fallen out of favour with the SVR, but simply because I can not afford to visit so often and a special event offers an extra bonus.

I did visit both the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland last year and depsite the higher fares felt I got extremely good value for money. I was able to get a discount as a student card holder, plus they offered a discount for a future visit. The lines are spectacular, staff are friendly and with a young baby in tow the modern carriages and facilities are a God send. Refreshments are provided at seat and a reasonably priced Their website is slick and easy to use. This is why the WHR and FR are holding up in this tough financial climate.

My advice to the Talyllyn would be to market it strengths, it is a time warp in a beautiful part of the world - that doesn't have to be a negative. Adjust it's ticketing to target more niche areas. Improve it's online presence and be able to pre-book, most families want to be able to do this. I was able to select and reserve individual seats on the Welshpool and Llanfair santa special before Christmas and print off the ticket; brilliant and it saves money on postage and admin costs. And most if all, show to the world it is unique and individual, to survive in this econmic climate you need to be brave and show you are offering something different to the rest.

 

Much as it goes against the grain for a TR traditionalist like me, but the railway needs to get "Duncan" back in service pdq and "hammer" the "Thomas the Tank engine" connection for all it's worth!

 

Hammering TTTE sounds good to me. Make sure its a really big hammer.

 

....one of the rare occassions where i agree with Mr Thomas......the man that is !!

 

...and so do I. I was one of those who resisted the "red engines with faces" when it was first proposed, but there is no denying that it has had a positive effect on TR passenger figures over the years. I am old enough to have been introduced to the TR by the original Awdry books. The "second coming" of TTTE has been most surprising, and a godsend to many heritage lines. Many static caravan holidaymakers in the area are families with small children - "Thomas fodder" if you want to be cynical!
My heart sinks every time I see such a masquerade on the TR, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm sure Andrew Thomas would be making much publicity out of it if he was involved!

 

....How about top-less drivers ?.....or drive your own train day ? The imagination can run wild !!

 

"Drive an Engine" has been, and is, done already.

http://www.talyllyn.co.uk/driver-experience/full-day

Topless drivers is an interesting concept. Remove "Talyllyn"'s cab? Oh.........THAT kind of topless! ))

 

Andrew, I've never been convinced that having a plastic face on an engine day in day out, week in week out, month in month out, year in year out actually delivers many extra passengers. Lots of people bring small children to see him - every day of their holiday sometimes, but that doesn't mean that they actually pay and travel on the trains. It's good free entertainment for an hour or so in a place which doesn't have much else to offer.

Standard Gauge lines which made money out of Thomas events (though they are reporting that it does not have the attraction it once did) tend to do it by re-enactments of scenes from the books and charging an special entrance fee which includes a train ride.

 

Well done Thomas events can be very successful, but peaked when the shows were on mainstream TV - they're now on lesser channels I believe. A significant part reason why they're now being dropped is greed and over-protectionism towards the "brand values" by the franchise owners. Taking too big a cut makes them less worthwhile for the extra effort.

 

This fits in with what I have been told by people connected with one line that is giving up "Thomas" events. Re-visiting ideas that once worked but have had their day is a bit desperate anyway and likely to fail. A pity though for the thought of Mr. Thomas playing the Fat Controller is one to cherish!

Returning to the theme of this thread, there is no way the T.R. can turn Tywyn into Bournemouth, or even Aberdovey for that matter, single handed. Even if it could, the timescale would be too long. There is a certain similarity with the Ballycastle Railway which spent decades in making its station facilities and signalling more elaborate only to be returned to basic railway format when taken over by the LMS. In other words tune your "offer" (horrible expression!) to match your business.

Paul H.

 

To do that would require a degree of realism which I'm not sure the TRPS has. The modest outfits at Welshpool and Aberystwyth are the models that the TR should look at rather than pretending that it's in the 'big' league of preserved railways.

 

and you would be right. The TR has never done it that way. If you look at the timetable it is done as special days and during August and October school holidays.
The Children's Duncan Day | Talyllyn Railway
It needs publicising more - particularly locally.