The Talyllyn in trouble ?

Ok, but the 63,650,000 don't like Narrow Gauge Railways !!

 

Make that 63,649,999. I like narrow gauge railways but haven't been to the FR/WHR in years! Did the Talyllyn a couple of years ago, mind you.

Richard

 

There is no evidence to suggest that the F&WHR is inadvertently reducing the numbers visiting the TR, but if it is the case, there's no point griping about it and blaming the F&WHR. You aren't going to convince them to start advertising your railway, or reduce your success.

Positive ideas about how to improve one's lot are the way forward here.

 

No, they don't even know that narrow gauge railways exist.

Yet.

 

Do you know that you have just admitted that you get everyone who does, no wonder there's empty trains elsewhere.....LOL

 

That's because the FR/WHR has a well-developed marketing strategy and a great product to push.

 

This posting seems to sum the whole thing up and is worth a good read.

A couple more things to think about. Firstly look up the adult return fares for the F.R., Vof R, T.R. & W &LLR. This shows that in pence per mile the T.R. is very much more expensive than the others as well as managing to charge an adult fare more than the longer W&L. The T.R. needs nothing like the horsepower per ton of tare weight required by the others. You can see why I have been cranking on about costs.

Secondly (you need to be a real anorak for this!) count up the number of operating days in 2013 for the T.R. and W&L. No, don't bother for I have done it for you! The answer is that the T.R. is running on around 100 days more than its inland counterpart for around the same level of business. You don't need to be a mathematical genius (I can barely count myself) to identify one of the problems. Another interesting comparison between the two organisations is the number of days more than one rake of carriages is in service. I will leave you to do this comparison.

Please don't think I am banging the drum for the W&L, it is simply because it is a convenient point of comparison.

Paul H.

 

Paul,

the TR is better Value for your day out. the Adult and Child full line ticket is basically what used to be called a day rover! which means you could go up on the 10:30 ex Wharf go for a walk around one of the many routes in the quarry one of which finishes in Abergynolwyn, right opposite the pub! perfect for a late lunch then a amble up to the station at Abergynolwyn for either the 13:55 in the Blue timetable or 13:20/13:55 in the pink travel down to Dolgoch get out again and wonder to see the Waterfalls then get a later return to Wharf.

If you take a normal ticket for railway B and purchase a ticket between stations A and Z that is all your allowed to do, yes you are able to get out at Z and wait for the next train but your then expected to go straight back to A look around the shop and go home. where as the TR has been trying to market itself as a railway which you can use to get out stretch your legs and view the sights not just as they are passing alongside the carriage. and one where you can use the railway all day and go where you wish. or for enthusiasts perhaps travel behind No.1 in the morning and No.4 in the afternoon giving you 2 round trips for your Adult ticket.

Makes sense to me!

AT

 

now, whether the TR can continue like this with their fare structure is another matter...

 

Hmm, I think most railways these days offer their full line return as a day rover, in my experience anyways. Perhaps it is worth finding out what your visitors do - how many do a simple round trip, how many do multiple round trips, how many stop off at a few stations on a single round trip - and create new tickets accordingly, so that the Day Rover is available for those as want it, but a cheaper out and back is provided too for the family on a budget.

 

Last year (and this year I think), the W&LLR tickets could also be used day rovers - sorry.

Gareth

 

there was talk of offering a different fare for afternoon return tickets from 2pm as passengers dont have as much bang for their buck, dont know where this got to but... back when I did some guarding I did find that an awful lot of passengers getting on at Dolgoch in the afternoons in the down direction or in the morning in the up direction with full line rovers. there are less people doing 2 full round trips but I have noticed at least some.

I think the option of having a full line rover or a straight up and down ticket is a worthwhile suggestion especially if we offer the latter only in the afternoon. might be the reason the afternoon trains tend to mainly have passengers returning to their originating stations...

AT

 

nothing to be sorry about Gareth...

 

Andrew - doubt that many families (as opposed to anoraks like us) want to make more than one round trip - though agree that breaking the journey is popular in good weather.

 

Michael - I wasn't suggesting they would! I was saying that passengers do both, I wasn't differentiating between enthusiasts and families yes I agree that it is less likely that families would do two return trips a day. but just to show another view at least once on the Vale of Rheidol whilst chatting to the passengers I was told it was a families second time on the railway that week as the child had such a fantastic time riding in first class on the way back to Aberystwyth behind the 'Red' engine that they had to come again and do exactly the same behind the 'Green' Engine which he thought was the best but this isnt a livery debate...

AT

 

and just for your notes Michael, I don't own a 'anorak' neither am I one

cheers

AT

 

Obviously a sensible and discerning child

 

Re level of service on WLLR and TR ...

I go to Wales for a week in August. To get there I have to use the A458 which takes me past the WLLR therefore I pop into the WLLR and spend a few hours there. But, and it's a big but, the WLLR only runs one loco in steam for most of the time, including the August high season, and therefore I wouldn't dream of going there with the intention of spending a few days on the railway, it just isn't value for money: an afternoon on the way up and another on the way home, yes, but not a special journey. I do go to the WLLR for their Annual Steam Gala with the intention of spending an entire weekend on the railway but I really wouldn't do that in the general run of things.

The discussion about the service frequency on the WLLR has cropped up before and the reason from Welshpool concerning their infrequent service was that they have tried to run more trains but it didn't result in more passengers and so it didn't cost in. One engine in steam rules OK. I think that this explanation has to be respected, because the bottom line has to be respected; if it isn't disaster looms.

Now, conversely, it is perfectly possible to go to the TR and have a splendid day out on most days in the high season because they run more than one train, and so, for me, the TR is better value for money. I buy a ticket, which I don't generally use, I buy books/DVDs in the shop and I wander about taking video and have a great time.

I think it is clear that the TR has to look very closely at its costs and perhaps its two or more engines in steam policy has to be changed at least outside August, but a steam gala would be nice and perhaps it would make the railway some money and bring in some welcome cash into the wider community too.

I do think though that the idea that the roads leading to Tywyn are poor does have to be challenged. Poor they most certainly are not. It true that it isn't possible to belt along on them but they are well maintained and they are safe to use. I have never, ever, felt unsafe on the two roads that lead to Tywyn either the coast road or the combination of the A458/470/487/B4405 which will get you from Welshpool or Dolgellau to Tywyn. Just choose an appropriate speed and take care; as much care as you would take on any other road in the UK.

Also I disagree that the WHR is taking income from the TR. The two railways are just too far apart for that to happen. I do think that the WHR is one NG railway too far in North Wales, that it will eventually decline as its predecessors did, but that is another matter: we will have to see, but the idea expressed here that there should be a connection between the FfR/WHR and the Bala Lake Railway is just plain daft, utterly crackers.

I wish the Talyllyn well, but I think that things are going to change at Tywyn, the railway clearly cannot go on as it has done.

Regards

 

the TR doesn't have a 2 engines or more policy really as most of the shoulder periods at the start of the year more than the end of the year run just one engine. again I think the suggestions are good ones Orion and all of these should be looked at closely to see which ideas the TR can use for their benefit. as for Gala type events we are limited as to what we can get in to star other than our main fleet but that doesn't mean we cant have different services and train sets out! please watch this space on that one as this is something I aim to take on...

cheers

AT

 

I'll remove my tongue from my cheek :becky: