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The Scottish Lowlander, 27th September.

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by RalphW, Jan 29, 2014.

  1. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I see this is now up on the RTC web site and I imagine bookings will be fairly brisk for such a special event. Our table is booked...:).
     
  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    What a great trip and it feels to me like one not to be missed even from down south. I just hope that this is all possible in a day from Crewe. Provisional timings give just an hour in Edinburgh whereas the text says we will have two hours. So which of these is it? I have to say that it may be ok to service an engine in just over an hour at Carlisle when it has started out of Carnforth an hour previously but the plan, as described, is to run 60009 for three hours to Edinburgh and then bring her back again on a four hour run. I would have thought that you would need ideally 2 hours to service an A4 (assuming that she is not being turned and going out, or coming in via the Niddrie Loop).

    So, come on you experts. Reassure me before I shell out good money and two nights accommodation!
     
  3. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    At this stage it's reasonable to assume that the times are pretty variable and there is going to have to be at least 2 hours for servicing.
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's my feeling which means that this could be a really long day and a return over Shap in the dark. It's still a great trip but quite a mission, especially after NR has started to try and path it.
     
  5. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    I'm up for a mission. Not only have I booked this one, but I'm going to make a weekend of it and book 34067's assault of the South Wales Valleys the day after, too. Although, I'll probably wait a bit to let my wallet settle first...
     
  6. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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  7. pjhliners

    pjhliners Member Friend

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    It certainly is a great offer, but the detailed pathing will indeed be challenging. As Bulleid Pacific has said on another thread, " if it runs as planned, that's 562.5 miles of steam in one day."

    I think I need to put the proposal (for that is all it can be at this stage) through some reality checks. Time at Edinburgh is the first pinch point, though running round the Sub in one direction would avoid the need to turn the engine. Next at risk would be the complicated routing round Glasgow to reach the G&SW line, so it might have to be back as outward over the Caley. If time was still short, we might end up picking up the Duchess at Preston, or even Carnforth, and ditto on the return.

    So what would we be left with? The Duchess over Grayrigg and Shap both ways, plus the A4 over Beattock both ways. Still a good trip?

    As the dog says, oh yes. But let us urge and plead with Nigel, James, Rachel and colleagues to try their damndest to deliver us something closer to the original vision. I hope on the day, they will be saying, "O ye of little faith".

    Peter, on a Manchester morning, with a bit of brightness in the sky
    http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/
     
  8. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    It certainly was a mission 50 years ago and as someone in their early 20s then, it's going to be more of a mission this time, but if RTC/WCRC can get all or most of it to work it will be a day to savour.
     
  9. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Looking at actual timings from sections of previous trips ( from UK Steam, although I have not found all sections) it does indeed seem like a very long day. An available platform at Edinburgh could be a problem ( VT's Castle to Scotland). If it has to be shortened and to keep as much of the original route as possible on the return, I would have thought going to Glasgow rather than Edinburgh would be a better option.
     
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    So, in short, this is a trip that we need to hold our breath over. The 1964 trip was on the go almost continuously and we now have to contend with a network where everything can take longer and we are also going to try and get in and out of Edinburgh and have a break there. I really don't think it all adds up but that is definitely not to say that it shouldn't be tried. This is a good example of when NR should try to path it first....but they probably won't.
     
  11. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    I agree. I have calculated based on a PMR trip Crewe to Carlisle( 2012) just under 3.5 hours, .5 hours loco change, Carlisle to Edinburgh ( Cathderals Explorer 2012 in the opposite direction) 4 hours so just under 8 hours in total for that section, then servicing and a longer return leg.

    I agree something should be tried but this looks too ambitious.

    I would like to travel behind the Duchess this year, have not been on the Glasgow and South Western, and would like another run over Beattock, but do not have the confidence to book at the moment.
     
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Same feelings here and that is not to in any way pour cold water on a trip that is a good idea and should book well. I've also carried out the same desktop exercise based on the best runs I've had previously such as Tornado on the Border Raider when, with only one water/pathing stop at Preston we flew from Crewe to Carlisle. I can't help but feel that a 0730 start will move back to nearer 0630 in order to get to Edinburgh by around 1400. And I fear that the exit from Edinburgh will be time consuming before the train gets out to Barrhead. That said, by the time the train gets back to Carlisle, I suspect that it'll all be quiet on the WCML!

    So definitely a trip for the enthusiast market then. It may well also test the marriages of a few couples as well!
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    6233 looks like it is being modified to use the VT water carrier. Dangerous assumption but if VT were to allow 46233 to borrow Reg (as the carrier is known) and 60009 maybe could be similarly modified to use the WCRC one . the range of the engines would be extended and reduced water stops may make the timings more feasible
     
  14. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Interesting. Both locos are strong enough to still take a commercially viable load over Shap and Beattock, especially if REG could double as the support coach (though that would be logistically difficult for 60009, at least). What happened to WCRC's water carrier? Did they fix the leaks? If so, REG-VT could become 46233's support coach and REG-WC 60009's, perhaps?

    However, several loop stops will be needed on the WCML regardless of taking water, so maybe the REGs offers fewer savings than on some other routes?
     
  15. pjhliners

    pjhliners Member Friend

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    I had a look inside the VT REG at Banbury last year and its whole floor is covered in water containers to at least waist height. No chance of it doubling as a support coach, according to what I saw.

    Peter, on a still-cold Manchester morning
    http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/
     
  16. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Spoken to RTC this morning regarding our booking and enquired in passing what interest had been shown in the tourso far, 'quite a lot ' was the reply, 'with a lot booking considering how far off it is'.
     
  17. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Gauging may have played as much a part in that one as a physically free platform, Catles may have only been cleared for 1 platform where more regulars visitors are cleared for a higher number.
     
  18. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    I thought the problem was that there are only about 4 through platforms at Waverley .
     
  19. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not that familiar with Waverley with all the alterations, but being approved for all 4 would be better than 1 or 2.
     
  20. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Transferring the discussion about the route from the general RTC 2014 thread...

    The interesting thing to me is the proposal to use the GSW main-line through Kilmarnock. AFAIK, that's very rare steam mileage. Indeed, I was under the impression that there was great difficulty getting paths on this route, since there's an intensive electic service and, IIRC, a section of single track. Has that now been re-doubled? When The Great Britain or The West Highlander have returned via Dumfries, they've been routed through Paisley, Irvine and Mossblown (lovely name!) and joined the GSW proper at Mauchline. Mind you, on this tour, they need to take the quickest, most direct route that they can if they're to get back to Crewe before pumpkin-time.

    (Aside - when did steam last work north over the GSW?)
     

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