The Royal Duchy 2012

Yes your bang on Steamage in that adhesion is the bigger issue that outright power, on flatter routes Bulleids would match other class 7's no problem, really it shoulden't be happening that steam is brought to a stand at the bottom of or on one of the banks, but it's already happened once.

I don't want to knock 34067 too much, but I woulden't be confident of her restarting on Rattery in the way 70013 did, even with Mr Churchills skillfull hands.

 

Match other class 7s? In the '48 trials they beat Class 8s in the power stakes and flattened some notorious climbs so can we get away from this "Bulleids only perform on the flat" nonsense? Rattery would have been a challenge but don't forget that the more even torque and smoother power delivery would have worked in 34067's favour. In both SR and BR days the Light Pacifics regularly worked over the Devon banks so would be interesting to read details of how they fared.

 

Wasn't suggesting Bulleids can't climbs hills, but 10 miles of 1 in 100 is a different challenge from 2.5 miles of 1 in 40, the excellent steaming rate makes them a good choice for the former but adhesion can be an issue on the latter, out of interest how many were light pacifics allowed in BR days ?.

 

The Bulleids were not so successful on the Somerset and Dorset railway. The crews preferred a Black '5' for the torturous 1-50 climb from Bath to the top of the Mendips at Masbury summit. <BJ>

 

You obviously weren't out with Ivo Peters with the trial run of 34109 over the Mendips then. Pouring with rain but '109 completed the climb in fine style without a slip. It was this run that led to their introduction on the S&D. As for crews preferring a Black 5, some of them did but then again on the WR Old Oak Common men mostly hated the Brits while Canton men mostly got on with them fine. The "not invented here syndrome" had a lot to do with crews disliking a particular loco type. IIRC it was their appetite for coal that didn't endear the Bulleids to some of the S&D crews. Whilst Bath did lose its allocation after a few years, they continued to appear on the S&D until the end of through trains at least.

 

Not old enough I'm afraid. Living at Midsomer Norton as a lad, close the Somerset and Dorset railway, did give me first hand experience of Bulleids slipping on the gradients ....and that was when they were double headed.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Bulleids. One of my favourite memories of BR steam was when 'Bude' and 'Biggin Hill' hauled a charter train over the line in March, 1966. But I have to admit, the Light Pacifics were light on their feet. <BJ>

 

Could be at times but not always. I've seen and heard locos of all shapes and sizes slipping and sliding, even the much revered Castles. I've experienced Bulleids slipping on the level and blasting sure-footedly up to Goathland on a damp day.

 

Well 34067 has handled 9 on Evershott and Upwey with aplomb, both similar climbs to Rattery and she's even handled 11 on Upwey - not that I'm suggesting she could have restarted that load on the 1 in 49. The fact is that we won't know how she'd handle a situation similar to that faced by 70013 until it happens.

 

Another question you may be able to answer Spamcan - is there any appreciable difference in terms of adhesion between Spam Cans and Rebuilts ?.

 

Not always so. 34067 on 15th July for example. <BJ>

''Struggled (understatement of the year!) over Evershot with 9 coaches at 12:25, was down to walking pace - driver did brilliantly to get over the bank!'' (Thanks to James at SVN for the quote).

 

To be honest I couldn't tell you the factor of adhesion for each type without looking it up. The rebuilds are slightly heavier, due mostly to the extra weight of three sets of full size Walschaerts motion.

 

Somewhat poor railhead conditions I believe due to earlier rain and the fact remains that even so she took 9 over Evershott. How would other Pacifics have done significantly in the same conditions?
34067 on the Weymouth Seaside Express - YouTube

 

Against a Spamcan, favourably.

This is the clip for the 15th July. Thanks to SVN for the excellent footage. <BJ>
34067 struggles over Evershot bank 15-07-12 - YouTube

 

Without wanting to get into a debate over which class of loco is better as every individual run has its own individual difficulties to overcome, as pure observation, 34067 was unable to restart its 10 coaches at Ore with half the train on the 1:60, where as 34027 twice restarted at Hastings with half its train on the 1:60 and the loco on the points, once with 10 coaches and the second time with 11, both these occasions Bert Hitchen took over the regulator as the rostered man had run into problems.
Bullieds on the S & D were official limited to the same load as the class 5's, both Stanier and standard varieties.

 

Seeing as im down there in a couple of weeks, I have a couple of questions for anyone who's photted down there recently:

1. With the current timings, do you think it possible to see the Torbay at Dawlish Warren and then get to Dainton in time for the Duchy ?(hoping the time the Duchy sits in Warren loop allows you enough time).

2. Is the traditional shot by Dainton Tunnel still on ? (ie has vegetation knackered it or not), can you still get in it (wasn't it give the farmer a couple of quid ?)

 

You know that for sure? No way of telling unless you can replicate the same conditions with another loco.
I recall 70000 trying to lift a train out of Stratford in December 1992. Difficult railhead conditions and it slipped 100 times trying to get the train on the move. I was recording part the way up Wilmcote bank and I just about froze to death waiting for it to pass, which it did over one hour late. So in difficult conditions a Britannia all but came to grief so how you can be sure to would compare favourably against a Spamcan is beyond me.

 

To be fair, everything has trouble getting away from Stratford on Avon, only thing that doesn't so much is the Shakespeare due to limited load 8 and familiarity with 4965 and 5043.

 

Agreed it can be a tricky exit at times but I have had/experienced pretty much trouble free departures behind 4468, 4498, 7029, 3440, 35028, 6201 and 6024. I just get the feeling that there are those on here who would have rubbished 34067 if it had suffered the same problems as 70000.
Another factor regarding how well a loco performs is crew familiarity, an extreme example being 60532 at Durham.

 

Hello Mr Spamcan and co. Having spent years of my misspent youth from around 1956 to 1959 watching the trains at the Dulwich cricket club going up that 1 in 100, I can recall a great deal of variation. 34091 and 34092 were invariably in excellent condition and waltzed up it with heavy trains, but there was sometimes masses of black smoke and pyrotechnics. By the way wasn't 34043 one of the S and D locos which I believe, with 34055 was the weakest of the class--had it been experimented with in some way? PS on another subject the loss of the Knaresbrough route for the SSEs is quite sad. Apart from the bridge problem at Harrogate, East coast have taken the evening slot now so I reckon that's it for that route.