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THE PALATINE 09/05/2009

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by leander, May 6, 2009.

  1. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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    Another thing occurs to me: UKsteam shows Ollie going via Market Harborough, which is unusual. In the past, steam on the Midland has been routed via Harringworth because of clearence problems near Market Harborough. That affected the "Stanier HST" combination of Leander and 5305 a few years ago. Or was that a problem in the up direction only?
     
  2. RalphW

    RalphW Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    I sometimes wonder if people realise that if NR gauged a section of track when the tour was first proposed and then some weeks later engineering was carried out they would have to do it again. So to save time and money, they leave it until they are sure that no work is to be done between gauging and the tour. Not wanting to defend them but just a thought......
     
  3. hjo1963

    hjo1963 New Member

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    I seem to remember in 1994 Jubilee Bahamas was to run the Hope Valley centenary shuttles from Man Vic to Sheffield. Ended up being run with Ivatt class 2 with a Diesel pushing quite a bit. So I was surprised anything bigger than a Black 5 allowed on the line.
    The Hope Valley route would for me be the highlight of the tour. I'm sorry so many will feel the same way :smt022 .
    At least plenty of real ale in Sheffield =D> . Jump on a tram at the back of the station to Shalesmoor stop and The Wellingtons right by or a short walk from there to the Fat Cat and Kelham Island Tavern.
    Brian
     
  4. Cunni

    Cunni New Member

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    Just a reminder about Sheffield Midland access situation:

    There is now no access for non-ticket holding members of the public.

    If you wish to see Cromwell from the platform, you will have to buy a cheap ticket to somewhere like Meadowhall, Dore or Dronfield.

    The station overbridge is also closed to non-ticket holders, so how the heck you get a tram to Sheffield to connect with a train I do not know. Seems you would have to take a massive walk around the station if you had not yet picked up your tickets. Rediculous!
     
  5. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    Grahamg wrote - verbatim - I haven't corrected its English :-

    Exactly as written in the now deleted first response to this ridiculous and negligent situation - up pops a Network Rail apologist.

    read on Graham - and learn.

    The main line route via the coast is still Network Rail owned and operated - and gauged. There areNexus considerations - but they come second to the above principal fact.

    After the superb 2007 tour, NR actually offered the coast route to an incredulous NELPG, who had always thought the clearance problem would arise - but when the route - with its rarity value, was offered they took it up - but not without questioning the offer first. Assurances were again given of "No Problem"

    Accordingly the tour was promoted and sold - then - forty eight hours before it was due to run - NR suddenly realised that NELPG had been right and that there was a problem - and the route was cancelled.

    What a bunch of incompetent, negligent, customer careless plonkers! Here we are twelve months on and it happens again!

    The most annoying thing is that there are supposed to be precautions and penalties to prevent this nonsense in the enabling legislation that set up today's railway, but no-one seems to enforce them - so they carry on regardless.

    This tour has been on the stocks for well over a year. It was going to the first Brit into Piccadilly for probably fifty years - but not now - Well done Notwork!
     
  6. hjo1963

    hjo1963 New Member

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    The ticket barriers have been talked about for a while at Sheffield. Nobody likes the idea of them. The last time I was at Sheffield Station there wasn't any. This was when Tornado came for the naming of the other Tornado business.

    Times many I've travelled from Chapeltown to Meadowhall or Sheffield without being approached by the Guard to buy a ticket. Often he/she never comes out the cab at the front/rear! The barriers will help with this i suppose.

    The walk round the station from the tram is quite a walk without going over the footbridge.

    I think I'll keep away from the station on Sat and catch ollie on the approach somewhere.

    Brian
     
  7. 1C watcher

    1C watcher New Member

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    Had thought about this but decided on 46115. Something must have been telling me it would be affected by the 'Steam on the Midland curse'. It seems to have struck again at RTC's plans for june 6th. Should have known better than thinking we would actually get a double header out of london. Let's face it, TWO pigs flying in formation? Also postponed for a month.
     
  8. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    I understand it's not going via Market Harborough now either. In view of past problems referred to by Steamage, that one really should have been spotted earlier!

    70013 will take ECS to Barrow Hill.
     
  9. grahamg

    grahamg New Member

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    t bird.I was on the train,I also live in sunderland.The tunnel in question is a wet one ,when the line was electrified instead of overhead wires an aluminium bar was used ,due to the damp conditions arcing occured,this blew holes in the aforementioned bar.Therefore overhead wires had to be used,and these are considerably lower than normal catenary.I am not an apologist for network rail,I just feel it should be pointed out that it was nexus that pulled the plug.
    p.s I shall be watching your use of english in the future.
     
  10. 42296

    42296 New Member Account Suspended

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    Well, Frank, sorry to disappoint you, but I rode into Piccadilly on 19th March 1967 (forty-two years ago) on the footplate of 70015 - driver Pete Norris and fireman Lol Charnley of 10D Lostock Hall MPD (Got the fots to prove it!)
    Otherwise, despite your occasionally abrupt mannerisms (which I personally have no problem with, but which does seem to offend one or two of the anoraks), I believe that you're absolutely spot on in what you say about these plonkers!
     
  11. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    Graham

    Nexus may well have made such a request - but the line and the decision are Network Rail's, subject to Nexus interests.

    They could quite easily have stipulated that the tin can on the back propelled for the third of a mile or so involved, with the K1 shut down with dampers applied, so that the heat effect from the chimney would have been virtually nil - but no-one is that brave today.

    That was overall an appalling chain of events led by NR - just as this is turning out to be.
     
  12. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Pity 70013's not going to Piccadilly (the place is a bit of a steam desert), but it's still going to Sheffield... not often a Brit's been there either.

    Personally i'd hope for a WCML mainline run to Piccadilly with a Brit or a Duchess..or just about anything.

    I think i'm going with the plan to ride up from London behind 70013 to Sheffield, then jump a service train via Manchester to Preston to see 46115 / 6201 + the 86 and finallly shoot back to London...
    Lets hope there's no more drama.. 70013 failed the friday before it's last tour !
     
  13. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Resident of Nat Pres

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    Don't know whether this dampens or adds fuel to the flames on the subject of last year's NELPG Tour but the problem was, I understand, not just in the Sunderland tunnel but throughout the Pelaw to Ryhope section that is wired for the Metros. The wiring is simply not designed to have the heat and steam emmitted by a Steam Loco passing, or perhaps more seriously, parked underneath it. Just another consequence of Nexus being given priority on this route along with Sunderland loosing most of its "proper" train service to through destinations in return for a Metro service that has, last I heard, failed to live up to expectations for usage. The coast route to Sunderland is a scenic gem, but now lost to steam unless topped and tailed so that the train can go main to main at Ryhope. The standard of wiring would be dictated, I am sure, by cost - you can't blow large sums on transport projects that far from Whitehall!

    It was my understanding that the ban on steam along this section was well known (and obviously in place from the date of electrification) and I was amazed that the route had been offered - and the problem only realised as late as the week before the train ran.

    I can, however, see Ralph's point on gauging needing to take place as close as possible to a train running - and if I was Network Rail, I wouldn't want to spend money on gauging until I was sure that the wasn't going to cancel the tour. Let's be honest, plenty of tours have fallen due to lack of loco or bookings - unfortunately, the two discussed here are with two promotors (NELPG and Steam Dreams) who have amongst the very best records at not cancelling tours! (Thus not avoiding any clearance issues!)
     
  14. 5944

    5944 Part of the furniture

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    I booked on the NELPG tour too, despite knowing about the ban on the Metro, because I needed the track out to Seal Sands. Going via Sunderland would've been great, but I never really believed it would happen and wasn't surprised when the letter appeared a couple of days before the tour. Like Steve says, it's all down to the overheads, specifically the insulators.

    I see SD are sending out a letter first class post to passengers booked on Saturday's tour. I'm going to see what that says tomorrow then decide what to do. By my reckoning the tour looses around a fifth of the steam mileage, including Stockport - Manchester which I still need for steam, plus is going to a completely different destination that doesn't appeal.
     
  15. train surfer

    train surfer New Member

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    Becoming more concerned about this now as their are still no times up
     
  16. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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    Times now available on Steam Dreams web site, though not on UKSteam.info yet.

    Depart Victoria 0814. Routed via Harringworth and Dore.
    Booked stops are:
    Clapham Junction (Platform 5) 0831-0833 hrs
    Brent Curve Junction (water loco) 0910-0933 hrs
    St Albans (Platform 2) 0952-0957 hrs
    Harrowden Junction 1119-1126 hrs
    Kettering (Platform 2) (water loco) 1134-1154 hrs
    Loughborough (Platform 1) 1259-1301 hrs
    Alfreton (water loco) 1345-1400 hrs
    Arrive Sheffield 1429.

    Can someone who knows the Midland main-line explain where Harrowden Junction is, please? Is that the north end of the goods loop through Sharnbrook tunnel? Does the stop there imply that it's routed via the loop? TIA
     
  17. hjo1963

    hjo1963 New Member

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    http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=48 ... ngborough+[MML]&zoom=3

    This should point you in the right direction! I' hoping to catch the tour around Dronfield on the way from Chesterfield.
    Brian
     
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    http://www.trainspots.com/locpage.php?ts_number=97

    It's just north of Wellingborough. I'm told by a reliable source it's slow line all the way from Silkstream Jct. so you should go through Sharnbrook Tunnel.
     
  19. Steamage

    Steamage Well-Known Member

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  20. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Just spoke to Steam Dreams, plenty of seats now available on tomorrows trip, I'm going to turn up and pay on the spot.

    I'll have my HTC with me so I'll update the forum with actual timings whilst i'm on the train periodically,

    any specific location requests for those watching on the lineside ?
     

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