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The Great Britain XII - April/May 2019

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by steamvideosnet, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    What is the revised itinerary for day 6 ?
     
  2. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Whether the tour goes beyond Ayr to Stranraer or not, either way I can't see it heading off to Carlisle on Day 7 via Barassie Junction and Kilmarnock as implied in the original blurb. To do that the locos would need to turn at Ayr and I don't believe that is possible any more. The triangle at 67C has definitely gone.

    So Barassie Junc to Kilmarnock must go down as one of the most promised and never delivered routes in the UK. Sad but one suspects it is just too difficult.
     
  3. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Active Member

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    Apologies Paul, but I am not personally sure at this 'early' stage.
     
  4. torgormaig

    torgormaig Well-Known Member Friend

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    Is it not possible to use the Ayr Harbour branch triangle at Newton-on-Ayr?

    Peter
     
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  5. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Active Member

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    News today is the Tour is confirmed.
    It also says Steam to Stranraer.
     
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  6. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't know. If it can then that solves the problem.
     
  7. Romsey

    Romsey Well-Known Member

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    It isn't a triangle anymore if I understand the Sectional Appendix correctly.
    The line to Ayr harbour diverges from the main line at Newton Jn. The Ayr harbour lines don't appear to be connected to the sidings at Falkland Jn, which was falkland Jn yard way back when.
    Google Earth shows tracks which are connected as a triangle but that is no guarantee that the track is still in use.
    A couple of further thoughts:
    It would be possible to turn the locos by running Ayr - Falkland Jn (reverse) - Mauchline Jn (reverse) - Kilmarnock - Troon - Ayr.
    Where would the rolling stock be stabled and serviced? I guess that all available sidings are used by Scotrail for stabling electric multiple units.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  8. 45305

    45305 New Member

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    The triangle at Kilwinning could be an option as that's roughly 14 miles away.
     
  9. Romsey

    Romsey Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense and will probably be the answer. They may have to run via Dalry as Kilwinning Jn doesn't seem to have have a crossover.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  10. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    I note that Kilmarnock is no longer mentioned in the RTC website description of Friday's itinerary, though it was there a week or 2 ago. We know that RTC are not always as thorough at updating these descriptions as they might be, so the fact that it has been changed suggests very strongly to me that Friday's train will head north only as far as perhaps Troon or Prestwick (maybe hauled by the DL) where it will reverse and head south again, taking the freight line through Mossblown. That's the way all previous GB and West Highlander tours have gone when using the G&SW.

    I'm not sure what it is about the line through Kilmarnock that's so difficult to path for steam tours? Likewise, why has there never been a northbound run over the G&SW in the last 12 years or so (maybe longer)?
     
  11. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Well-Known Member

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    Cant help but think that the first three days of the trip will be diesel assisted, especially over the banks and then looking at the run over the WSR, apart from the previous whistling ghost tours, hasn't there always been something on the rear ? Same case for the Welsh Marches too ?
     
  12. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Active Member

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    It's very unlikely that the diesel will remain on the rear when the WSR loco takes over for the Bishops Lydeard - Minehead & return section. Up to 10 coaches can be handled by 6960 'Raveningham Hall' without assistance, over that, 7F 53808 would be used.
     
  13. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Well-Known Member

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    That's the exact formula of the VT/WCR whistling ghost trips, but I'm pretty sure that the majority of the West Somerset Steam Express tours from London always kept the diesel on the back. I'm just trying to figure out what the best days to follow the GBXII are.
     
  14. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Active Member

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    I'm a volunteer on the WSR, for quite a few years I was a guard, and I kept an eye on the RTC tours (I'm assuming you're referring to their West Somerset Steam Express tours), in fact, I worked two of them as Conductor Guard and there was certainly not a diesel on the rear on the WSR. Sometimes one might have assisted on the mainline, but always came off at Bishops Lydeard. The only times I can remember diesel assistance was on two occasions last year when there was a high fire risk and WSR-based diesels assisted in the rear.
     
  15. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    On previous GB tours, RTC have gone out of their way to avoid DL assistance, to the extent of attaching a support coach or spare luggage/staff coach to the shadowing DL on occasion, to get the load of the main train within the steam loco's capabilities. Remember, too, that 6233, like Tornado (and DoG, I think?), has been allowed an extra coach over the South Devon banks - 10 rather rather than 9. Therefore, I'm going to take a chance that the Red Duchess will be unassisted on the important bits.

    There's no reason to think the Duchess will need assistance on the Welsh Marches route. Tangmere, Ollie and even a Black Five have worked GB tours on that stretch without help.

    Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future expectations. ;-)
     
  16. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Over the South Devon Banks, only EWS/DB have ever taken 10. WCR always 9. That's not to say things might not change for this year's GB. No need loadwise for a diesel on the Marches. Class 8s have comfortably taken 12 and even 13 from Bristol.
     
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  17. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Well-Known Member

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    You're right about the Welsh Marches running without assistance, but the Great Britain runs northbound in recent years have a diesel on, though I think that was to do with the fact only a Black Five was available ! Wasn't last years GB load nine ? If so we'll might get away with it on the Devon Banks. Actually I was just trying to imagine them starting day two up Hemerdon with a cold engine unassisted with load 9/10 ! Not forgetting that the ultra protective PRCLT might not wan't ten coaches on the hook over the banks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  18. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Part of the furniture

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    Surely the diesel presence also depends on what stock shunting is required as some TOCs / FOCs don't keep spare engines hanging around any longer hence you either take your shunting locomotive along for the ride - or don't do any shunting during the tour(s). In fairness most rear end assistance is only used when conditions require it and most crews (especially WCRC crews) have much experience in that area, hence the loco mainly goes along for the ride until duty calls.
     
  19. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    GB trips are expensive, far more than 1st Class day trips. I was always under the impression that this was because of all the staff costs, including their accommodation, plus a shadowing diesel that would not be attached to the train but go ahead or follow, additional path permitting. It would make little sense for you to be away from base for a week without having any extra motive power nearby for anything that might happen or need to be done, including shunt moves.
     
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  20. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture

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    I remember 44932 hauling the GB7 up Horfield bank on the climb out of Bristol on 28/4/2014. That day it was load 11 unassisted. Very noisy.
    I saw 45212 on the Cardiff to Yeovil section on 26/4/2018. I may be wrong but I made a note that it was 11 coaches. <BJ>
     

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