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The Dalesman 2019

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Thanks John , she did sound good I must say but got lucky as a farmer was strimming his grass but thankfully stopped when he heard the steam coming :)
     
  2. nige757

    nige757 Well-Known Member

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    48151 from Shap Wells and Birkett Common.

     
  3. Bodorganboy

    Bodorganboy Member

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    48151 on the Dalesman at Scout Green and Kirkby Stephen West
     
  4. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Clag fest on the return :)
     
  5. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Well that was an exhilarating run up Shap today! :Yawn:
     
  6. 3855

    3855 Member

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    'steady' is probably the better word, but on the plus side more time to get the perfect shot for the photographers that turned out.
     
  7. walkerp1

    walkerp1 Member

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  8. noelist

    noelist New Member

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    here again is video of 48151 getting underway just after leaving Carnforth :-



    as I was in a hurry to get to a meeting, accidentally deleted the video.
     
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  9. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, I could have got a shot at Greenholme then walked up to Shap Wells for another and then walked to the summit for a third! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  10. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Part of the furniture

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    And had a coffee at Tebay Services:D
     
  11. osprey

    osprey Member

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    Who needs HS2...
     
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  12. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Dalesman (Western Route) 16 July 2019 – 48151 hauling 11+POB

    Originating in Chester the outward leg of the “new” itinerary is via Shap to Carlisle; this gives me the option of boarding at Preston or Leyland. Preston is a 15 mile drive and £12 on the car park; Leyland is 12 (easier) miles and only a pound for parking – no contest! At 09.27, the train, hauled by 37.685 & 37.669 arrived. I was in coach J, next to the back; the train was one coach longer than that on my previous trip in June. Boarding took a little while as a coach load of senior citizens joined the train. There was a stop at Preston to collect passengers and a pathing stop at Barton & Broughton loop. We arrived at Carnforth D&UGL 3L. The rumour was that it would be 48151 today and the rumour proved to be correct. On the 25th June 48151 had, inevitably, lost time on the climbs and so it was somewhat puzzling to see her turned out again and this time with an extra coach – “Throw another shrimp on the barbie!”

    We were due off at 11.23 but had to wait for a late running Euston-Glasgow, we left 6½L. Ron Smith was driving and Peter James firing. It was a dry, warm day with high cloud and so there were plenty of windows open. Soon, 48151 was chattering merrily away and we reached 29.5 before the climb up Yealand Bank with a min of 26 on the climb and 29 as I passed the summit (in the 11th coach). We picked up speed and hit our max as we crossed Beela Viaduct, by Milnthorpe we were travelling along at 52 but 11¾L. The noise from the front increased, past Hincaster Jn at 47.5 but the heavy train and rising gradients were slowing us; through Oxenholme at 40.5 and now 13¼L. Beyond Oxenholme speed fell back to 33 on the 1/104r but then rallied to 36 as we approached Docker Garth Viaduct. We passed Lambrigg at 34.7 but had dropped more time, now 15½L. Speed fell as we battled up the 1/106r, we reached Grayrigg Summit at 30.5 but 16¾L; the min on the climb was 30.1. We had lost over 10 mins since leaving Carnforth.

    As the 8F was prepared for the climb up Shap the recovery was somewhat measured; there was plenty of dark smoke drifting back. From Grayrigg, we reached a max of 45.5 at the foot of the 1/204f but this fell back to 41 at Lowgill (17¾L), we passed MP31½ and up to 48.8 and held this speed to Tebay S Jn, another half mile and across the Lune at 47.2. But now the serious test begins, we crossed Birbeck Viaduct at 42.3 but speed was falling quickly, under the Greenholme Road at 34.5, battling hard but down to 21.8 at Scout Green. The exhaust beats were becoming ever slower. As we crossed over the road to the Shap Wells Hotel we were down to 15.3 and still nearly three quarters of a mile of 1/75r to go. With the end in sight we rallied, ever so slightly, as the front of the train reached the plateau I passed MP37¼ at 17.1, MP37½ at 21.2 and the Summit Board at 24.5 but 25¼L. The minimum on the climb had been 15, there was never any doubt that 48151 would “make it”; she climbed steadily but at a speed that made it impossible for her to keep to the schedule. The time from Carnforth to the Summit Board was 56m 25s (allowance 37m 30s).

    With the help of gravity we were up to 47 at Hardendale and 50 at Harrisons Sdgs. We continued down the bank in the high 40s/low 50s. Despite our best efforts we continued to drop a little more time, we passed through Penrith at 47.7 and 27L. I had thought that we would get looped here (I had thought that we would be looped earlier) but no! Online travel information revealed that there had been an incident that had resulted in the OHLE being turned off south of Tebay and consequent delays until around 13.15. Mmmmmm! We arrived in Carlisle at 13.07 (31¼L).

    Time for a walk to the front and a look at “Little Legs” now perilously close to the end of her main line ticket – what a miss she is going to be for the crews at 10A. The weather was warm and sunny so, in a break with tradition, I walked down to the corner of the square and had a sandwich at the cafe; sitting in the sunshine in Carlisle! The timing sheet in the tour guide showed that we would stop at Appleby but not at Hellifield; RTT indicated no Appleby stop but stopping at Hellifield. If RTT was correct (and I suspected that it was) then there would be no ice cream opportunity at Appleby. It was “ice cream weather”. Down to the shop, a single cone (but a big ‘un) of English Lakes blackcurrant for £1.60 – much more than in a tub from the station (£2) – what a bargain!

    Back to the station where the stock had remained in platform 3. 48151 and support had been serviced and turned and were sitting in High Wapping sidings whilst some boxes were being loaded into the coach. After a northbound Virgin service had arrived in platform 1 the 8F was reversed into the neck of A road, then forward and finally back onto the ECS.

    Back to my seat at the front of the 3rd coach – this wasn’t going to be fast but it would be noisy. It was now sunny and I was seated on the west side of the coach; it was going to be hot, oh for a mk2 and air con – only joking! Ron Smith was driving and Martyn Soames was now firing. It was the usual steady start from Carlisle but 2 miles out and under the M6 at 23.5 and already climbing on the 1/132r, past Cumwhinton at 28, slowed slightly but back up to 28 at the top. A short level then onto the next 1/132r and almost at once past Howe & Co SB (35.9 & 6¼L), speed dropped to 31.5 but back up to 32.7 at the summit. After the summit comes a drop past Low House Xng SB (41.5 & 8L) then down to Drybeck Viaduct and a max of 52 just beyond. Next a short climb (1/132r) to Armathwaite (47.3 & 8L) followed by a drop to cross Armathwaite Viaduct at 52.9 and into Armathwaite Tunnel at 48, now climbing at 1/220r. This stretch seemed to be to the 8F’s liking as 1.3 miles later, as we left Barons Wood No1 Tunnel, we were still going along at 45. Through Lazonby (43.5 & 8¾L) and into the dip to cross Long Meg Viaduct at 49.8 and on to the climb towards Langwathby; it was wonderfully noisy as we blasted past Little Salkeld at 46.5. Despite some sterling work we were now 10½L as we went through Langwathby at 41.2. After another 3½ miles of easier gradients we had pulled some time back and were 10L at Culgaith SB (48.1). Speed fell as we climbed towards New Biggin where the noise from the exhaust increased. Past Kirkby Thore SB at 47.4 where the half minute we had gained had been lost again. Old “Little Wheels” was giving it a go; Long Marton 51.5, Long Marton Viaduct 53.1, the 1½ miles of 1/120r approaching Appleby slowed us but we passed through the station at 43.2 & 9¾L. No ice cream stop here – Oswald had chosen wisely!

    There was a perfectly judged approach to Ormside Viaduct (52.8). As we passed Ormside, only half a mile further, speed had fallen to 48.4 and we were 11L – the 1/100r was already biting and there were 3 more miles to come. Halfway along this section lies Helm Tunnel, in at 37.4 and out at 34.6. At Griseburn Viaduct the gradient eases to 1/166r but we were down to 29.4. Speed built steadily and, with plenty of noise from the chimney, we passed Crosby Garrett at 37.3 & 13½L. It was steady acceleration all the way and we reached our max as we crossed Smardale Viaduct at 45.1 and started the next 5 miles of 1/100r. Around halfway on this stretch is Kirkby Stephen SB (30.6 & 15¾L), despite an improvement to 32.5 on the short easing, the gradient is punishing. The 8F blasted her way towards Birkett Tunnel, in at 26.2 and out at 25.7 with 23.6 before the easing to 1/330r before Mallerstang. On the easier gradient 48151 lifted the train to 29 at Mallerstang (17½L) and up to 34.5 just past Sycamore Tree Farm; but still another 3 miles to the summit. Barking away with 27.9 at Angerholme, now less than a mile to the road bridge – would we manage 25? Almost, 24.9 under the road and then back up to 25.9 at the Summit Board (20L) with a min of 23.9. From the (flying) start at Appleby to passing Ais Gill Summit Board had taken 31m 17s – whilst we had the requisite number of coaches, “we didn’t trouble the scorer for the Blue Riband.”

    So 20L, a 50 mph loco, only an 18 minute water stop at Hellifield at best we would be looking for a slot 30 min behind our original path. The scenery was looking spectacular in the hot afternoon sun. By Blea Moor SB we were 24½L and despite a clear run to Hellifield we stopped in the UGL for water 26¾L and were 26L when we left towards Clitheroe. A good run and a generous allowance saw us slow but run through Horrocksford Jn only 19½L. We were now close behind a service train and were held for over 7 mins at Low Moor as we waited for it to clear the section. Once away we ran in the mid 30s until we approached Whalley when we slowed to 7, once the green on the platform end was sighted 48151 was opened up; she had a quarter of a mile before the 1/82r begins. As we left Whalley Station (30L) we were up to 19.7 and the 8F was blasting away, speed fell back to around 18 but no further. A mile into the climb and 18.4 leaving Billington. In the next mile we accelerated to 22.2, another couple of hundred yards and Langho Station (22.7 but 31¾L), just after Langho we “burst through” the 23 mph ceiling. In the next mile we almost reached 24, but 3 miles from Whalley and it was 23.6. In to Wilpshire Tunnel at 22.7 and out at 22.5. 4 miles from Whalley and 23.6 and through Ramsgreave & Wilpshire (22.1 & 31L) with 24 at the summit. 48151 was the perfect loco to lift the train up Wilpshire Bank and she did it well. Running out of path we had a surprisingly good run, being slowed but not stopped at Daisyfield, Farington Curve and Ribble Jns allowed us to stop in pl4 at Preston 28L.

    The 8F and support left for Carnforth and the diesels took us south, I was home for 8pm. My thanks to all who planned and operated another very enjoyable day out. Special thanks to the footplate crews who spent a long time on a hot footplate on a warm day. 48151’s speeds on the climbs should result in some long video clips and a sunny day some well lit photos – thanks in anticipation. This may be my last trip for a while on the ever dependable 8F as she nears the end of her ticket – now what about bigger wheels then she would be a really useful engine.
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    A lovely account - thanks - but there is a down side.

    Can we just reflect on the fact that the 8F dropped half an hour to Carlisle from Carnforth. In so doing it delayed the 0843 from Euston to Edinburgh. It also delayed the 0930 from Euston to Glasgow to the extent that it didn't arrive at Carlisle until 20 minutes after 1S48 should have arrived. Both trains were delayed by about half an hour and neither service recovered from that.

    So where was the wisdom in sending an 8F out on a 73 min path that it couldn't keep? Not a good advert for steam on the WCML. I just hope that NR is feeling charitable over it all.
     
  14. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

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    Great account as usual Ossie (can I call you that)? I wonder if you managed to record the number of sleepers between Tebay and Shap summit, lol. ;)
     
  15. 46245col

    46245col New Member

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    We’ll never know of course, but with what happened last time, and WCRC have 3 75mph locos currently at 10A, that one these was not allocated.Indeed one of these, an 8P as opposed to an 8F, arrived back at Carnforth on Monday evening.
     
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  16. acorb

    acorb Well-Known Member

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    Yet Oswald's account makes no mention of the charter being looped to allow these trains past?
     
  17. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    I think that by good fortune they have not actually delayed anything the last couple of weeks. It looks to me like yesterday both the 0843 and the 0930 were delayed by some 'incident' (OTW) south of where the charter had got to. But for that they would have been looped at Grayrigg and/or Penrith. Having said that, what we learn from the last two weeks is that 90 mins is a very good time and 100 mins quite a reasonable run with the 8F. Sooner or later they will be in the wrong place at the wrong time slogging up Shap at 15.
     
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  18. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Part of the furniture

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    Yes maybe going to the well once to often;)
     
  19. RalphW

    RalphW Part of the furniture Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    If you look at RTT you will see that 1S48 was already 36 late when it left Oxenholme at 12.43 and 9S54 was 31 late leaving Lancaster at 12.40 so since the Dalesman arrived at Carlisle at 13.06 at which time 1S48 was stopped at Penrith, there is no way you can point the finger at the way the Dalesman ran since it did not cause the following services you mentioned to be delayed... Do I detect a bit of 'lets blame WCR' whatever the facts show?

    As OTW posted above,

    "We passed through Penrith at 47.7 and 27L. I had thought that we would get looped here (I had thought that we would be looped earlier) but no! Online travel information revealed that there had been an incident that had resulted in the OHLE being turned off south of Tebay and consequent delays until around 13.15."
     
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  20. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    A fair point and probably true :( So...if they are going to use 'little legs' on Shap again, just stick a box on the back to give her some shovage; Oh! But wait....damned when they do and now it appears they are damned when they don't.
     
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