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The Dalesman 2019

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by iancawthorne, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. Bodorganboy

    Bodorganboy Member

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    LMS 8F 48151 on Grayrigg bank this morning
     
  2. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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  3. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Footage of 48151 at Docker Viaduct, Shap Wells and Stockber .

     
  4. Shep Woolley

    Shep Woolley Part of the furniture

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    Dalesman 8F1b.jpg

    Heading today's Chester 'Dalesman', 48151 works 1Z52 through Shap with Mick Rawling driving and Frank Chippendale on the shovel

    Dalesman 8F2b.jpg

    With the rain having stopped but still overcast 48151 works the return 'Dalesman' over Batty Moss Viaduct with Mick Rawling driving and Bob Bullock firing
     
  5. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    What is the rein Sir ;)
     
  6. nige757

    nige757 Member

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    48151 at Shap Wells and Stockber.

     
  7. walkerp1

    walkerp1 Member

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  8. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Member

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    When it goes, it goes forever... Great Loco
     
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  9. ribble

    ribble Member

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    48151 exiting Wilpshire tunnel with the re-routed Dalesman on 25/6/2019

    David Price - 15A_1632.jpg Cop Lane on Flickr
     
  10. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Very nice David good to see a different location
     
  11. henrywinskill

    henrywinskill Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the correction,maybe the 75th birthday celebrations went on to long on Monday lol:)
     
  12. ribble

    ribble Member

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    Thanks Henry,first chance I've had to get steam here since NR cleared the cutting
     
  13. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Dalesman (Western Route) 25 June 2019 – 48151 10+POB

    June is a month littered with Wistle family birthdays, Oswald’s included. This year June 25th is the most significant as it would have been my mother’s 100th birthday, so it seemed entirely appropriate* to celebrate it with a ride on the S&C. I was joined by Mrs W and my sister, Mrs S. We met up at Leyland where light rain was falling, but the forecast was for an improving day. A few minutes late our train, hauled by 37.669 and 37.676, arrived on the FL. On Monday an email from WCRC notified passengers that there was to be a change of itinerary; we would go to Carlisle via the WCML with steam on at Carnforth and return via the S&C, Blackburn and to Preston. At Preston the steam would detach and the diesels attach to the southern end for return to Chester, in short The Dalesman had morphed into a CME. (It appears that the point at the eastern end of the DGL at Hellifield has not been repaired/replaced).

    After a short stop at Preston and another in Barton & Broughton loop we arrived in Carnforth D&UGL 4L. The diesels came off and 48151 and POB were attached. 48151, being limited to 50mph, seemed a strange choice of locomotive for a run over Shap as she might struggle to “run to time”. Other “more suitable” locos may not have been available – still an 8F with 11 on over Shap doesn’t happen every day. We were ready but had to wait, not for the Edinburgh bound TPE but for a late running Virgin service to Glasgow.

    The weather was now dull but dry and 6½L Mick Rawling eased us away, Frank Chippendale was firing. We were sitting near the front of the 3rd coach and 48151 could be clearly heard as she accelerated the train up to 33 at the foot of Yealand Bank, speed fell back to 29 at the summit. Subsequent acceleration was good and we reached our maximum around MP12, a good mile earlier than usual – but we were limited to 50. By Milnthorpe we were 10½L and a mile beyond speed dropped below 50; the climb was beginning to bite. 48151 was working hard as we passed through Oxenholme (36.6 & 12¾L), and just enough time for a couple of blasts on the hooter. A mile beyond and speed had fallen back to 34 on the 1/104r – this was going to be a hard slog, another 4 miles and we crossed Docker Garth Viaduct (MP24) at a little over 30. Speed continued to fall and I wondered if we would be looped at Grayrigg, but no; we reached the summit at 24.4 but now 18L.

    With gravity now helping, after a further half mile, we passed under the M6 at 32.3 and we were up to 47.5 at Lowgill (19L). We continued to gain speed and we weren’t going to be turned in at Tebay; we were going to get a good run at Shap. We crossed the Lune just beyond Tebay N Jn at 53, another ¼mile and under the M6 (51), across Birbeck Viaduct (47) – the 8F was blasting away as she fought against the gradient. Speed had fallen to 41 as we passed under the Greenholme road, a smallish group of photographers waited as we approached Scout Green (28), the gradient was really hurting, Shap Wells (23.4), MP37¼ (23.3), MP37½ (22.6) and the Summit Sign (26.1) – minimum 22.1. Having dropped 16 minutes from Carnforth we were now 22½L and beginning to delay the following service.

    It was now a case of down the hill as fast as our little wheels could carry us – we had little chance of pulling anything back against the schedule (this is possible with a 75mph loco). I suspected that we would be looped at Penrith, but I was wrong (again), we continued on our merry way. We finally stopped in platform 3 at Carlisle 23¼L; the non-stop run from Carnforth to Carlisle had taken 89m 40s – is this a record for an 8F with 11 coaches? A stroll up the platform to see the loco, I expected to see a grubby and weary fireman but Frank Chippendale appeared “fresh”, I remarked that he hadn’t even broken sweat. “I was once sent home [from work] in 1965 for sweating”, came the reply!

    We made our way to the Woodrow Wilson for lunch and then a stroll around the centre with a little clothes browsing in M&S (for the ladies). Then it was time to return to the station and a couple of minutes later the train reversed into platform 3. We were all safely on board, but now at the back of the 10th coach.

    With Mick Rawling driving and Bob Bullock firing we headed south (RT). Two miles out and under the M6 at 25.3, the 8F was getting into her stride, after 4 miles we topped the first stretch of 1/132r at 31.1, a short level and up to 41.7 as we passed Howe & Co SB (2L). Speed fell back on the next section (3 miles of 1/132r past Cotehill) – topped at 36.2 with a min of 35.8. We were 3L as we passed Low House Xng SB at 45.4 and gained speed in the dip before climbing to Armathwaite (49.6 & still 3L). Down into the next dip before climbing the 2+ miles of 1/220r through the 3 tunnels; into the first, Armathwaite at 51.4 and out of the third, Baron Wood No1 at 47.2 with a min of 45.4 at the summit beyond. Another dip follows (1/165f) towards Lazonby and then a short climb to the station (3½L), downhill again before climbing up past Long Meg and Little Salkeld (51.7) and onwards to a mini-summit at Langwathby (44.6 & 4½L). Next comes 5 miles of easier gradients towards Culgaith SB (50.4 & 4L), followed by a short climb to New Biggin that slowed us to 45. Speed recovered to 48 at Kirkby Thore SB (4¼L) and increased further by Long Marton (52.1 & 4L). The following 1½miles of 1/120r knocked us back to 41.5 but we gained speed towards Appleby. As we crossed the A66, the road was damp but cars were not using their wipers – passing shower?

    We went straight through Appleby (3¼L) at 48 then downhill to Ormside Viaduct and a chance to gain some more momentum before starting the 1/100r. 1¾ miles into the climb we entered Helm Tunnel at 43.8 and left at 38.1. Speed fell further with a min of 34.7 on this section but improved to 35.5 as we crossed Griseburn Viaduct. The gradient eases towards Crosby Garrett (41 & 5½L) and we reached a max of 45.9 before the 1/100r returns. Across Griseburn Viaduct at 43.5, but soon the gradient was biting, 29.8 at Kirkby Stephen SB (7¾L), on the brief easing that follows speed improved to 33. Back onto the 1/100r and speed fell to 28.1 as we entered Birkett Tunnel and out at 26.2. There follows just under a mile of 1/330r, we passed Mallerstang at 30 (9¼L) and speed built to 32.7; not much to take onto the final 3 miles of 1/100r. By Angerholme we were down to 24, the gradient was hurting, across Ais Gill Viaduct at 22.5, under the road bridge at 21, past MP260 at 20.5 and past Ais Gill Summit Board at 25.8; with a minimum of 20.0. Appleby (pass) to Ais Gill SB (pass) took 30m 31s, creditable enough but we were now 12¾L as we had been allowed an impossible 21min for the climb.

    We had no chance of regaining any time as we dropped down the hill, Garsdale (51.6 & 15L). The deficit grew to 17L at Blea Moor SB and despite Mick’s best efforts remained stuck around this figure as we stopped for water in Hellifield UGL. Time for some “Birthday Cake”, Mrs S had wanted to have a hundred candles – she has always had fanciful ideas. With water taken and cake eaten we were away (12¾L), could we regain our original path at Horrocksford Jn or would we have to wait to be slotted in behind the next service train – it appeared border line.

    Border line it might have been but right of way went to the service train, we were held for 11 min at Horrocksford Jn, once away we ran towards Clitheroe (19L) and were held for a further 3½ min behind Booths Supermarket waiting for the service train to clear Whalley. This is where experience counts, Mick set off and we trundled along gently at 15-20 mph and as we approached the distant signal (behind Barrow) we slowed further and briefly stopped waiting for the signal to clear (this happens after the service train clears the next section at Daisyfield Jn). The signal cleared and now we had exactly a mile to build some speed with which to attack the 4½ miles of 1/82r that is Wilpshire Bank. The plan worked, we sped through Whalley Station at 43 (28¼L). After a mile we passed behind Billington at 32.2, another ¾ mile and we passed Mytton Fold Golf Course at 28.0. We blasted through Langho station (2.1 miles from Whalley) and looking good (27.0 & 27¾L). 3 miles from Whalley and speed had fallen to 25.3; 4 miles from Whalley and going well at 24.0. We hammered through Ramsgreave & Wilpshire (24.6 & 26¼L) and onto the summit where, as most of the train was now heading downhill, in the 10th coach speed had risen to 26.3. The climb from Whalley to Ramsgreave & Wilpshire (290 ft in 4.5 miles) took a creditable 9m 35s.

    We slowed approaching Daisyfield Jn but were allowed on without stopping and into Blackburn Tunnel. There was a brief 1½ min stop in platform 4 before we continued the final leg of our journey. As we left Blackburn (26L), a train from Manchester was being held at Bolton Jn – “right of way for the special!” We were up to 47 at Mill Hill (26¼L), Cherry Tree (49 & 25¾L), Pleasington (53 & 25½L), Bamber Bridge (39 & 23½L) and Lostock Hall (31 & 22¾L). We joined the WCML at Farington Curve Jn and made our way north, passing our 37s waiting at Ribble Jn and crossed over to platform 6 without being slowed or stopped – what a finale! We stopped 22½L. The 8F and support were quickly detached and the diesels coupled up to the south end of the train. We left 22L and trundled down the fast line waiting to cross over to the SL before stopping in Leyland (25L). Mrs W and I were in the car and home for 8pm, a text from Mrs S confirmed she was home for 8.20.

    So a changed itinerary, an unusual, but very acceptable, choice of loco resulted in an even better day out than expected. My thanks to all who planned and operated the trip especially to the footplate crews who got the best out of a freight engine on passenger duties – just like a Sunday Excursion in the 50s! You may have noticed that not a single ice cream was consumed during the course of this trip – there’s always a next time!

    *In the 1940s my mum and dad spent several happy holidays staying with family friends, Frank and Maude Slee, who lived in the railway cottages at Little Salkeld. Frank was a railwayman working on the line around Little Salkeld. Getting to Little Salkeld involved an early morning taxi from Oswaldtwistle to Blackburn, catching the first service train to Hellifield and then the stopping train to Carlisle. The holidays consisted of long walks and picnics in the countryside with perhaps a bus trip into Penrith on market day – far simpler times . . .
     
  14. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    Nice report David. I was predicting two hours Carnforth to Carlisle including visits to Grayrigg and Penrith loops. Not many buses at Little Salkeld these days, though the Fellrunner still exists thank goodness.

    Anyway, the next Chester Dalesman (Jul 16) is again out via Shap and back S and C, and the next York Dalesman (Jul 9) is looped at Skipton, then into Hellifield station platform, which I'm guessing means the diesel on the back has to stay on to Carlisle, though happy to be told that's wrong. Hellifield down goods loop is clearly still out of use.
     
  15. John Petley

    John Petley Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the report and also thanks to all video posters. It really is amazing that a 50mph limited steam loco was let loose on the WCML with 11 on and no tail gunner, but I think it is apparent that in its own way, 48151 has now become one of main line steam's real stars. Besides being a friend to the sound recordists with its noisy bark, it now seems to be in the top notch in terms of reliability and performance. In my discussions with other enthusiasts, it seems like the Tyseley stud, Clan Line and the Riley Fives are unofficially regarded as main line steam's "premier league" based on those criteria but I think this humble 8F deserves its place alongside them. Just a pity I live about 300 miles from Shap or Ais Gill!
     
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  16. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks Peter. The timings for the York Dalesman on July 9 have been changed from those of the 11 June (11 June in brackets). Hellifield 11.50-12.29 (11.50-12.10), the Appleby stop has been reduced 15 mins (20) and the arrival at Carlisle is later 14.30 (14.20). On the 11 June RTT showed the Hellifield stop as 11-54-12.22 and as the service train was still behind the diesel remained on the back and the Appleby stop was omitted. If the service train passes at Skipton (as planned) then the additional time at Hellifield could/should allow both diesels to be removed - ever hopeful! I'm booked on this one but had to miss the June 11 as we were off on holiday to Greece the following day with the taxi booked for "Four in the morning" (thankfully not the end of December).
     
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  17. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks John, I think that the 8F is a favourite for the crews at 10A and continues to exceed my (and I suspect others) expectations. There are a few minuses to living in the NW but a big, big plus is the easy access to steam and not just Shap and the S&C. In the last year or so I have joined services at Blackburn, Bolton, Crewe, Lancaster, Leyland, Preston, Skipton and Wigan all less than an hours drive away. I realise how fortunate I am when compared to those, like you, who have to make long (and often expensive journeys) to sample steam in the NW.
     
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  18. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    The Carnforth, Crewe, Birmingham nexus is indeed a bonus for those in the area. Plenty of choice and hopefully demand will be able to match the offerings.
     
  19. 30567

    30567 Well-Known Member Friend

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    Yes it's the hope that gets you. It all seems quite tight at Hellifield on the way back. Can they deal with two diesels and the loco/POB move in 25 minutes? Perhaps if the loco/POB shunt happens on the up side after the train has departed, it is feasible. Might see you --- hoping for the Princess on one of these!!
     
  20. Fulwood Flyer

    Fulwood Flyer Member

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    I believe 48151 is referred to as ‘The Carnforth Duchess’ at WCR
     

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