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The contribution of Photographers to Preservation

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Sidmouth, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Matt35027

    Matt35027 New Member

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    Sounds like a great idea.
     
  2. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    One thought occurs to me. Why do railways not go to the most popular photo sites on their lines with collecting buckets and solicit contributions from the photographers?

    While I know it has occasionally been tried it does not happen that often. How much, for example, would the GC have raised from a collection at Woodthorpe and Kinchey Lane during their recent gala?
     
  3. dace83

    dace83 New Member

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    A couple of prats at Hellifield walked straight past the 'DON'T GO PAST THIS POINT' sign onto the platform ramp, walked along the track and practically next to the engine watering. They then were shouted at by the loco crews but still took photographs. All for what would have been a crap shot in my opinion.
     
  4. Christoph

    Christoph New Member

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    Hello,

    here is my promised additional comment.

    A photographer will probably have his total contribution to the preservation movement in mind and act accordingly. A volunteer will probably judge the photographer on the behaviour in the situation present and might know little if anything about the photographer's background and if he does he might not care. A bit of macroeconomics versus microeconomics if you like or economics vs. business management.

    I agree to those who believe that photographers are an underexploited resource for many lines, probably because of the strained relationship. All lines could do with some extra revenue. I would expect most if not all loco-owning groups to rely heavily on those who have more than a passing interest in railway preservation.

    And finally my personal check-list to evaluate one's contribution:

    1 Have you bought a ticket on the day?
    2 Have you bought souvenirs?
    3 Have you bought food and drink?
    4 Did you feed a donation box if you were given a treatment beyond that usually enjoyed by a visitor?
    5 Did you feed a donation box even if the service offered is free?
    6 Are you a regular donor to a preservation project or did you do large one-off donations?
    7 Are you a member of a preservation society?
    8 Are you volunteering anywhere?
    9 Did you trespass?

    A "yes" at 1 to 5 will earn you brownie points on your visit, the longer you stay the more crucial they are if you wish to keep a happy relationship with the line visited.
    A "yes" at 6 to 8 will earn you brownie points at the place you support and for the preservation movement as a whole but might be irrelevant if you are visiting.
    A "yes" at 9 will render 1 to 8 void.

    Does that make sense?

    Regards

    Christoph
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    I'd quite happily go along with your 1-9, Christoph.
     
  6. Orion

    Orion New Member

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    I have suggested this before but nothing happened. They could also have areas of the lineside temporarily fenced off from the tracks and used as spectator stands. Entry £5 or a travel ticket. There are lots of ways that the railways could profit from photographers, but they prefer to moan.

    Regards
     
  7. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Why not just charge for lineside permits and then issue a pass they wear around their necks.

    Patrol the line.

    Anyone not displaying it... tell them there trespassing and issue a fine / threaten eviction... stand in front of their photograph.
    I would go further.. take their picture and place it online as a page showing "trespassers on the line".
     
  8. Out of interest, which railways are moaning about photographers not contributing?

    Steve
     
  9. David-Haggar

    David-Haggar New Member

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    I don't think it's generally the "railways" per say that complain about the photters but more like one or two individuals in high ranking postions that don't like the photters. Recently on here we've had comments from Mid-Hants members complaining, and with good reason, that there was very little photo coverage of the Autumn Gala or the return to steam of the new Black 5 in the magazines. Unfortunately the Mid-Hants, or individuals, have almost gone out of their way to stop photters at their galas i.e. lineside ban and after the Spring gala there was a message in one of the magazines asking photters to stop going in adjacent fields. As a result of this we now have the scenario that Mid-Hants galas receive limited photo coverage in the magazines, but there's also now complaints about not enough photo coverage - so sadly a no-win situation for anyone. And so I don't get accused of Bluebell bias against the Mid-Hants, a few years ago a high ranking Bluebell member hated the photter commmunity so much he tried to get photo charters banned on the railway, fortunately he was shouted down because charters brought in too much financial income for the railway.
     
  10. Christoph

    Christoph New Member

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    Hi,

    If you like to go round with collecting buckets you need someone with spare time and willing to do that. If that person from the railway is not available it can not be done.

    But here is a thought: What if one of the photographers goes round himself. Ideally, but not necessarily, that person would be a member of the respective railway society. What a great idea, you help your railway AND get decent photos at the same time.

    Thanks for that comment. So far for tarring everyone with the same brush.

    Regards

    Christoph
     
  11. Jonno854

    Jonno854 New Member

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    I don't know about withdrawing lineside passes but I can sympathise with the Mid Hants for requesting people to stay out of neighbouring fields. If there is no public right of way or other form of access agreement (the right to roam may apply to some limited areas such as moorland) then it is trespass and against the law. Railways will no doubt wish to keep good relations with their neighbours and large scale trespass seemingly (to the outside lookign in) 'promoted' by the railway will do nothing to improve such relations. I recently attended a Great Central gala and saw large numbers of people viewing the line from just north of Woodthorpe bridge. Those on the 'wrong' side of the fence wearing orange jackets were presumably largely holding linesdie permits and would have accessed the line from Woodthorpe bridge. Those in the field side of the fence, having accessed the line from a nearby road were guilty of blatant trespass. By the end of the day a large area of the young crop had been trampled. The farmer was no doubt less than happy, but as an individual may have considered it difficult to approach such a large crowd and ask them to move on.

    On a seperate note, on attending a number of galas, I am suprised by the actions of a few selfish individuals to spoil others photos. At Quorn and Woodhouse, Winchcombe and most recently Bewdley I have seen one or two persons wearing orange jackets standing directly in front of a public viewing area, which as it is on railway property and only opened for the duration of the gala (for example the carriage shed yard at Bewdley) is largely populated by the paying public. Yes the lineside pass holder has a technical right to be there, but is he not morally wrong to stand directly in front of the large number of people on the public side of the fence?
     
  12. northernblue109

    northernblue109 New Member

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  13. Diamond Gaz

    Diamond Gaz New Member

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    And those "selfish" photographers, will have paid upto £80 in total for their permit to do that! (Permit + NYMR Membership + charge for PTS Certificate). Where as many of the people who stop and watch from the road bridge, are passers by / freeloaders, who haven't contributed a penny towards the NYMR!
     
  14. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    SVR Gala in 2009 I was photographing 60007 at Bewdley from behind the fence.
    After waiting 15 minutes, this bloke suddenly rolls up, goes track side, moves right in front of me.. literally.

    Impressed... nor half.

    For what it's worth as my contribution, I bought a day rover and gave the Patriot group £20 for my photographics oppourtunities.. and I didnt even go trackside... wonder what he gave ?
     

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  15. wehaveaproblem

    wehaveaproblem New Member

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    His tripod looks really close to the line too?
     
  16. 34054

    34054 New Member Account Suspended

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  17. northernblue109

    northernblue109 New Member

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  18. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Hear hear.

    For the record, I come down on the dubious side of this debate. I've spoken to people on here who are undoubtedly philanthropists and photographers, but so few of those who wear the High Viz jackets are, in my experience. I volunteered on Quorn & Woodhouse regularly for a good 6/7 months a few years back, and we were always having to expressly tell photographers to keep back from the platform edge, not sit on the fence by the goods yard, and generally keep off the crossing at the end of the platform, heading towards Ropley.

    They had all paid for their passes, but their behaviour - and they way they treated the volunteer station staff - was poor at best. Now in fairness, that is tarring a lot of people with one brush. There were the odd occasions where I found photographers pleasant, and willing/able to behave as asked to behave on the platforms. Bear in mind there's a lot of heavy, extremely hot, and dangerous machinery rolling around, and you can understand why volunteers get a little edgy when a photographer - looking to get his perfect snap - ignores pleas to "get back" when they are too close to the line.

    A few months back, some idiot with a ladder nearly got hit on a station, waiting for Tornado to pass through. His stepladder was hit by a commuter train. More than anything, this particular incident (which got a huge amount of press in the various magazines and on the net) has only served recently to fuel my disdain for the most extreme of the "photters". That sort of dangerous act, which could have got himself killed, never mind injuring or terrifying the driver and or the passengers on the train, I have seen replicated to some degree in its risk-taking at various preserved lines up and down this country.

    Until we find a way of dealing with the minority of idiots, unfortunately those that do contribute to preservation will be tarred with the same brush.
     
  19. Sorry but that's a non-starter. Let's take the recent example published here. How do we know the guy in the hi-viz turned up after the guy behind the camera? The picture does not tell us the answer. Maybe it was the other way round. Yes, we've all had it happen to us and it's really annoying. I find my wife usually sorts them out :) But your "name and shame" idea just will not help, I'm afraid.

    Steve
     
  20. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    I have time and stamped photographs taken before, during and after in both directions (71000 heading south, 5164 heading back etc), so I can prove my part when I arrived at the scene and who was there before and after..



    On a different note, europeans don't tolerate it at all..

    At Wolsztyn 2008..in the "V" between the Posznan and Leszno lines is a small hill well known with the photographers..
    This bloke in a red t shirt rocks up... into the V and walks in front of everyone right down to the split...
    About 20 polish photographers immediately start shouting at him, so he ducks down and everyone relaxes...

    until the ol49 comes past.. he jumps up snaps the photograph and stands to watch it past..irking everyone around him.
    He acknowledges it.. ducks down .. until the pt47 passes and repeats the performance.

    This time one guy leaves his tripod walks downs and flattens him with 1 punch to the floor.
    The guy gets up packs his things and leaves with a red cheek.

    ...

    In another episode in Chabowka there was a field with a side view of the BR 52 on a freight.. nice.

    This photographer walks along the track and a german photographer immediately starts shoouting.
    The photographer ignores him.. so the german guy gets out a pumpable duck horn and starts blasting on it....
    The photographer still ignores him and few minutes on.. so the german bloke came back from his car with a shot gun and fired it into the air...

    everyone around him .. we all packed up an left at that point !



    and finally...

    Also same time at Chabowka..

    Two of us sat on a log perfect view of the freight parade...
    the log starts making a rattle sounds and this long sliding green thing emerges looking a bit disturbed and awakened...
    At least 3 feet long snake goes off into the grass..

    so we decieded to immediately jump back onto the road and find a new spot down the lane.
     

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