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The contribution of Photographers to Preservation

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Sidmouth, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. myford

    myford New Member

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    Take a look at some historic aviation forums, a fair bit of discussion is generated with regard to photographers standing outside the airfield perimeter to take photos without going in (paying) to the airfield. Thus historic aircraft (which the event organisers have had to pay a considerable amount of money for them to attend) are being photographed for free.
    Myford
     
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Interesting as I've not seen such discussions but then again I'm not on every forum that covers that field. As with this debate though, how do they know all or any of these people haven't contributed? At the Duxford May show, I paid for a weekend ticket. Went inside on the Saturday for the "meet the pilots" session and watched to Sunday display from the outside as that's the best place for phots during most of the display. My conscience is clear.
     
  3. northernblue109

    northernblue109 New Member

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    At some point the theme of this thread seems to have changed to 'do photographers contribute more THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC?', which changes the argument somewhat. No I don't, why should I unless I am getting something additional in return? As yet I haven't seen any realistic suggestions for increasing revenue from photographers, only reasons for those with a marginal interest such as myself to stay away completely.
     
  4. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    We are judged against the paying public who many deem to be the bread and butter punters by which our railways survive and provide a benchmark as to what is deemed a contribution level for the photgrapher to be seen as paying his way

    Let me pose another question . I like watching football but rarely get the opportunity to see any matches and tend to watch motd (when i can) . Am I a football parasite ? Polite answers on a postcard please.

    My point though is down to my conscience as to what I or anyone can truly afford . Does everything in life have a price which has to be paid ?
     
  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Martin,
    As individuals we know what we contribute to the heritage railway movement financially and/or practically and TBH it's nobody else's business what that level of contribution is. The fact that we also like to take photographs is an irrelevance IMHO.
     
  6. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    THis from the SVR forum

     
  7. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    An offensive post and hypocritical too. I trust you made a robust reply Martin. Whilst there are some photographers who fit the profile mentioned in the SVR forum post, the vast majority do not. I think the quoted post says more about the person who posted it than the photographers he seeks to denigrate.
     
  8. std tank

    std tank Member

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    Sounds just like the photographer I had to verbally abuse before he would move out of my way on the footbridge at Bridgnorth station. I have a walking difficulty and I have to use the LH bannister on stairs. I asked the person nicely first with a simple "excuse me please". He just looked at me and stayed where he was. He then received both barrels from me and soon moved. I have to say that he would be one of the few, not one of the many.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest New Member Account Suspended

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    There was a post some time back about a member of the public making a polite enquiry to a volunteer working on a loco.

    One of the blue overall camp was completely disdainful of "people wasting his time" and indicated that he had little patience with such people and would have ignored the enquirer A respondent then pointed out how said person came back later after being poitely spoken to by the volunteer and offered a cheque for £50k towards the project.

    Martin - you have pointed out how the creative fotters have combined to put their money where their mouth is, but some people don't want to listen. More fool them as it will be their projects that lose out if they treat all outsiders that way. The pooh poohing of £75k said more than I can - That kind of money does not grow on trees and the person who dismissed that deserves to be regarded with utter contempt.

    I have occupied, and continue to do so, many roles in preservation, and if today's spanner wielders don't appreciate that without money coming in that they have no interest to pursue then that merely demonstrates their shortsightedness, and why they will probably remain tin bashers. Last week at Quorn I watched with dismay the odd car reversing at the £5 for entry board. Those people too should be held in contempt. Do they want everything for free?

    Preservation is a broad church. It is also big enough to make it relatively easy to avoid the obsessives and share the best of the hobby with those of wider vision,whether its a regulator, a spanner, or an Olympus that represents their interest.
     
  10. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Theres good and bad in everyone.

    Personally i think rude volunteers, arrogant locomotive owners and little Hitlers using preserved railways to enjoy "inexperienced senior statuses" do far more damage to preserved railways than rude photographers..
    A Rude photographer will go somewhere else and be rude next week.
    A Rude volunteer will lose the same railway a customer every week.

    similarly a good photographer will probably contribute to many projects
    A Rude volunteers is probably only contributing to their own small pond.
     
  11. tomparryharry

    tomparryharry New Member

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    I'm not really a photographer, but I've seen both sides of the coin. I can remember prepping at the first Isle of Wight 'Terrier Fest'.... When the first train of visitors got off at Havenstreet, One of the 'great & the good' shouted at a visiting Bluebell worker; "Get out of the e**ing way, I want that shot". I've never witnessed the like before, but was told, "he's one of ours, always like that'.

    With regret, I've nearly mown down a chap at Brecon Mountain, as he took it upon himself to climb a mature oak, and clamber out over and above the running line. I managed to stop in time, and asked said 'gent' to get down, and stop playing silly beggars. The amount of abuse was unbelievable, and in front of a packed train.

    On the other hand...

    Having witnessed the annual Pontypool & Blaenavon photo charters, it's the other side of the coin. The days are specifically laid out for camera toting enthusiasts, and we normally manage something that the normal days won't provide, such as freight traffic, or visiting locos, laid out to customers requests, etc. The positive side of this is that the railway in question gets extra publicity, usually from the charter, due to the (sometimes) high quality photos being submitted to the mags. It's all good stuff!

    If you're really lucky, you can bag a 'photter' to get involved with your own railway. You only have to ask. We did!

    Regards,
    Ian.

    Its sunny here....
     
  12. 44662

    44662 New Member

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    Does anyone else think that the arrival of digital photography means more time is being spent taking photos and above all "movies" as the cost of film and developing doesn't matter anymore .Would the well publicised near miss in East Anglia have happened and indeed been recorded if it had happened just a few years previously. My own opinion is that we only notice the bad ones who avoid any admission charges, are rude obnoxious etc. The vast majority contribute and have had the pleasure to meet and talk to many whilst enjoying my hobby .
     
  13. Coboman

    Coboman New Member

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    Re: Tornado

    But then even them are contributing in a way. I spend all my free time either working on the class 14/15/28 or at the CVR on Pway. I never get chance to visit other railways at the moment so my only source of pictures and vids is the net and there are thousands of photographers posting pictures for me to appreciate. Its all swings and roundabouts matey, and nothing is a clear cut when you look into it.
     
  14. Beaker

    Beaker New Member

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    I've never understood why being a Photographer is considered a bad thing, I used to volunteer at a railway, who I also spent a rather lot of money on becoming a life member (for me at time). I always found it odd when volunteering you would still get the "****ing freeloading photographer" from a certain person. It always confused me as annually I'd spend far too much on food/drink in the buffets or buying books in the shop. And occasionally buy tickets to travel even though the life membership gave free travel. To this day I've never understood why this insult continuenly came flying towards me, I'd like to think I'm thick skinned towards most things, but I just didn't understand WHY it was said, as I was clearly trying to do anything but freeload, if anything it made me want to freeload to spite, but thought better of it.


    I can understand why he would be sufficiently angry with freeloaders, but the link between one group and one person, to this day I've not understood.
     
  15. 73129

    73129 Member

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    I don’t care about photographers freeloading on preserved railway or photographing main line charters it's just on of those things. But there seems to be a growing number who think they can go anywhere they like. They don’t give a dam about trespassing on private land or railway property. Be it preserved railway land or net work rail property. They also think they have the god given right to cut down bushes or trees when in their way. I also don’t under stand why they can’t take their litter/rubbish home with them. I find umpteen empty drink cans and food wrappers left around.
     
  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Litter is a problem not restricted to inconsiderate photographers I'm afraid, nor is trespass.
     
  17. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    It's a double edged sword really...

    Volunteers pretending (or maybe they are) troubled artists / rock star mentality... typically abuse their fans as they believe "there's plenty more where they came from"..

    but when the fans find someone/thing else more intersting / less hostile and move on..

    the same engineers sit there with a begging bowl, appeal, leaflet and crave the attention they have lost.

    All photographers have wallets and spend their money somewhere.. for everyone £1 not in your pot it's going in someone elses.

    I used to donate to a particular locomotive until someone who has no idea who I was decieded to insult me from there, on this forum.. so I give to another fund now instead... doesnt stop me photographing their locomotives still.
     
  18. michaelh

    michaelh Well-Known Member

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    Well said
     
  19. Christoph

    Christoph New Member

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    Hello,

    some very interesting views. The contribution of photographers to preservation might be a good subject for a dissertation. I'm not sure, though if you should get a BA (hons.) for that or if a PhD would be more appropriate (honestly!).

    I could not agree more on that.

    A typical mistake only too common, unfortunately. Even worse if those rock stars also abuse fellow volunteers who do what is written below, just replace "fans" with "fellow volunteers":

    Err, some have wallets but spend their money at petrol stations, photographic shops or food outlets unconnected with any railway.

    And I seriously doubt if that individual will care. I know too many who do not. And quite a few who will, but they are less prominent.

    More to follow tomorrow...

    Regards

    Christoph
     
  20. TonyMay

    TonyMay New Member

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    I was thinking about this, getting the old grey cells going. And I thought, there is a potential market which is photographers, are preserved railways actually exploiting that market properly and to its full potential?

    Photo charters for example tend to be run on an ad hoc basis, and it seems to be important who you know to get on these things. Well, I thought, what can be done?

    With regard to lineside pass holders, how about forming an "XX Railway Photographic Society". Have an online presence. Hold slide shows every few weeks. Hold a competition every year and get sponsorship for the prizes. Organise charters through that society. Actively sell charters to members. Make appeals for resources to them specifically. Organise working parties for lineside clearance through them. Actively go out for that market rather than letting it come to you and then moaning if it doesn't.
     

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