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The Christmas White Rose, 19/12/20

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by frazoulaswak, Dec 19, 2020.

  1. frazoulaswak

    frazoulaswak Well-Known Member

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    Rebuilt Bulleid West Country class 4-6-2 No. 34046 Braunton thunders through Hartford station with Saphos Trains' Christmas White Rose from Telford to York on a bright 19th December 2020.

    EOS 5D Mark IV_201219_1682.jpg

    A Merry Christmas to all on National Preservation.

    Cheers,
     
  2. Jeremy English

    Jeremy English New Member

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    I would have been right next to you (but at a safe social distance!) if I hadn't wimped out this morning over cornavirus scares!
     
  3. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    A fine shot. It seems that northern England tier 3 trips continue, but none from London. Not all tier 3s are created equal!
     
  4. D7076

    D7076 Member

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    York is tier 2.Not sure about Telford but that’s not in the North despite being north of Watford Gap.
     
  5. Britfoamer

    Britfoamer Well-Known Member

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    Sauntering through a well filled Guide Bridge rolling up to the water stop, then a away through Hyde North., with rain specking, well it is Manchester!! P1120712.JPG P1120713.JPG
     
  6. walkerp1

    walkerp1 Member

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  7. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Great photos above and it's good to see steam out and about. However, let's just apply the current COVID rules to this trip.
    1. You can travel within Tier 2 but you are encouraged not to make unnecessary journeys. (This trip was an unnecessary journey.)
    2. You can travel through a Tier 3 area to get to another Tier 2 area - like Telford to York via Manchester. (But the train called at Manchester to pick up.)
    3. People in Tier 3 should only travel within Tier 3 for essential reasons and should not travel outside of Tier 3. (So how many boarded at Manchester Victoria on this unnecessary journey?)
    So this is the response of Saphos to government rules in a national pandemic. Perhaps I am misreading the regulations. Happy to be corrected.
     
  8. mattspencer

    mattspencer Member

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  9. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Well-Known Member Friend

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    Must be in the running for the Most Irresponsible Railtour Company of the Year. Talk about winging it...
     
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  10. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Member

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    I think this sums it up and echoes some of my previous points on the issue. The distancing and cleaning on the train may be compliant (and Saphos are not alone in claiming so), but it's simply not a necessary journey in itself, and it involves hundreds of unnecessary journeys for the passengers to get to and from it. I doubt that many people seeing it en route will think "hang on, what are they doing on that steam train?" and report the matter, but a few might and that then potentially gets to the press, possibly leading to negative publicity for the sector. Who knows? The lack of consistency is rife and a new tier 4 is to likely to be announced for us here in the SE today, which will presumably only add to the complication.
     
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  11. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    And of course, according to their website, still not requiring masks on the "hospitality" argument and apparently they are only optional when moving around the train. I thought in hospitality settings a mask was mandatory when moving around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  12. steamingyorkshire

    steamingyorkshire Well-Known Member

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    It's quite a muddy topic, as most things are with Borris and Co...

    Regulations & restrictions are enacted in law, the Tier 3 legislation doesn't include any rules / restrictions / regulations around travel (Tier 3 legislation: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1105/made/data.pdf). Travel information is therefore guidance. People can travel between tiers, however, they've asked for essential travel only, there is currently no legislation to prevent any form of travel, essential or non-essential (in England, some other parts of the UK have made it law).
    So any person that boarded at Manchester, provided they're within the law of gathering sizes etc. hasn't broken regulations or restrictions within the Tier 3 legislation, they've gone against the government's advice. Whether this is right or wrong is a moral question and open to a persons interpretation, which i'm sure views will differ widely.
    (This is in the context of a person boarding at Manchester, whether the train should have run, due to the regulations set out in Schedule 1, Part 2 of the legislation is a whole different can of worms).

    Plus, all this could change later today with the upcoming briefing from Boris and co....
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
  13. Macko

    Macko Well-Known Member

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    Well putting aside the Tier 2/3 arguments, I was just thrilled to see and hear some mainline steam just a few miles from where I live and joy of joys in this miserable month, some decent light!
    Braunton at Burton Salmon glinting nicely.

    [​IMG]
    Braunton at Burton Salmon
    by Phoenix Images, on Flickr
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree that 'guidance' allows people not to break the law but I'm not talking about the law; I'm talking about common sense.

    The guidance says "What you can and cannot do in an area of Tier 3 of local restrictions". 'Can' means 'ok'; cannot means 'not ok'. And on Travel it says "You should avoid travelling outside your area and reduce the number of journeys you make (within your area) wherever possible."

    The way that you avoid travelling outside of your area is not to get on a train that takes you outside of your area. Saphos could have chosen to remove pick ups in Tier 3 and then they could only be accused of providing an unnecessary journey for people who should know better.

    You can tell from this that I am not Dominic Cummings and looking for ways around guidance that we have to take on trust is for the benefit of all. And everyone wonders why we are in a mess with a Christmas free for all to come, maybe.
     
  15. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    Christmas is all but cancelled now anyway.
     
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, Saphos rolled the die today in gay abandon, in my view. I'm really disappointed with the company. Meanwhile the RTC and West Coast, who occasionally get a bit of stick on here did, as far as I can tell, the right thing.

    I wonder how all those Tier 3 folk whiled away their three hours in York?
     
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  17. John Rowley

    John Rowley New Member Friend

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    JSR_EOS R5202930-Enhanced.jpg JSR_EOS R5202909.jpg 34046 leaving the Milford Loop
     
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  18. John Rowley

    John Rowley New Member Friend

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    From what I hear, probably like everyone else, in the recklessly overcrowded shopping centre ......
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
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  19. ianpilk

    ianpilk New Member

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    Thank you to those who have posted images today. I turned out to photograph 34046 at New Mills South Junction and also on Thursday;
    it was a real tonic to see mainline steam again.
    Could the Covid moralisers please confine their whingeing to the mainstream media?
     
  20. D5177_55A

    D5177_55A New Member

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    So that’s where the Sun was!
     
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