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Teifi Valley Railway

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Anthony Coulls, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    Yes. the key words there are "provided that" - both that the accounts are filed, and provided that the registrar and ORR don't exercise what I think are discretionary powers to enforce.

    Llangollen plc's books were up to date with companies house.
     
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  2. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    I seriously doubt that there would be much discretion allowed by the ORR if any railway operating company, in whose name the safety management system and LRO/TWAO were vested, ceased to exist.

    I have not stated that this will inevitably happen in the case of the Teifi Valley Railway, but more to point out the possible risk of not complying with the deadlines set by Companies House. I fail to understand why anyone would want to chance their arm in this way, considering what is at stake.
     
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  3. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    Accounts for 2018 (Due Dec 2019) were not posted until May 2020 - some 5 months late - so this seems to be an ongoing problem.
     
  4. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    OK, so that's assuming Companies House decide to act AND assuming they don't get their accounts in.

    No-one is saying it's great, but as long as they are talking to the relevant parties, it's shouldn't be fatal.
     
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  5. Robkitchuk

    Robkitchuk Member

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    I'm sure it said on here the company only operates the cafe, with the railway being a seperate company. Unless the situation has changed or I've got my wires crossed!
     
  6. Elizabeth Perry

    Elizabeth Perry New Member

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    The Accounts are late for BOTH Companies but it is the Railway Company that is threatened with closure.
     
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  7. Maldwyn

    Maldwyn New Member

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    Late filing of company accounts does happen all the time. Indeed I have myself filed late last year and had to plead extenuating (covid related) circumstances. However it should never get so late as to be issued with a non compliance strike off. Generally you have 9 months after the end of the year that the accounts are made up to to send the accounts to Companies House. It is just that, printing the accounts, placing the document in an envelope and posting (unless you can do it automatically through some accounting software). The difficult bit is actually completing the accounts which is why many companies employ accountants. Well that’s not strictly true; if you are not deemed to be a ‘small’ company you have to employ an accountant regardless to audit the accounts but the TVR would be classified as small. If you do fail to submit you do receive warnings and penalty notices starting with £150 in the first month culminating with £1,500 after 6 months. Due to the pandemic Companies House has actually extended the deadlines by a further 3 months automatically as well. To therefore be struck off due to late filing is in my opinion a breakdown in communication as there should be more than enough time to resolve issues or agree a strategy with Companies House. They just want the penalty paid, accounts issued and then move on so it should be easily resolved if the accounts are available. I think the TVR’s downfall is that they were very late filing the previous year and possibly have lost any opportunity for leeway. Going back to my circumstances, I have been explicitly warned if I fail to issue my accounts next year on time I will suffer the consequences of that failing and the one just gone so I am under no illusion that I am on notice.
     
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  8. Elizabeth Perry

    Elizabeth Perry New Member

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    I have to repeat this again: you may have very good reasons for being unable to complete the accounts on time, but if so, you MUST find somebody else to do it. If you can't do that, put the bank statements, cheque book, paying-in book and purchase invoices in a carrier bag and take them the 12 miles to the accountants in Cardigan who employ people who do nothing else all day but put Accounts together. Simples!
     
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  9. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    for once and unusually I am in full agreement with @Elizabeth Perry

    accounts are an absolute requirement of any business, limited or sole trader . Limited , the directors have a legal obligation to file accounts and I think carry personal liability should they not be filed and penalties incurred

    I filed my own limited company accounts online along with my tax return and as Elizabeth says a firm of Accountants will quickly be able to complete and audit a set as needed
     
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  10. Maldwyn

    Maldwyn New Member

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    Elizabeth - I think your statement is strongly worded given that we do not know the full facts. However I would hasten to add that I totally see where you are coming from and do not disagree with the principles. Checking Companies House it is evident that the TVR had used an accountant in the previous year and one based in Cardigan at that. That would not therefore be the problem. The quote in the Tivyside suggests that it was down to one individual not filling the accounts. There are 4 directors in the business and the previous accounts have been signed acknowledging their responsibilities for keeping accounting records in accordance with the Companies Act 2006. So, whether they realised it or not they should all be ensuring the document is prepared and filled; they annot reasonably expect to be excused of their responsibilities through the failure of one individual. That said, there may be a reasonable excuse that can be given; only time will tell but based upon the reasons stated in the paper I would think they have a weak case if they have got to the stage of being given a notice already. My own personal assumption (without any evidence) would be that the stated individual simply had all the receipts etc and due to the misfortune stated never got found to passing them onto the accountant. Whilst they will be hit with a fine, take on an element of reputations damage and probably pay overtime to their accountant this will be just another late filling and the TVR will live on for another day - the two weeks notice period should be more than enough time to complete said accounts.
    Not withstanding the above the saga would suggest it is not the most efficiently run company and if monies are having to be spent paying fines people may gave second thoughts about donating to or fundraising for the said organisation. It would be worth trying to ensure this does not happen again. For the record I am neither pro or anti management but hope the railway continues and indeed flourishes in the future. I have fond memories of the line over many decades and would like to think these will be added to in the decades to come.
     
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  11. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    Agree strongly with Maldwyn.
     
  12. MartinBall

    MartinBall Member

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    Agree strongly with Elizabeth.
     
  13. Elizabeth Perry

    Elizabeth Perry New Member

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    The Cardigan accountants have been putting the accounts data into the proper format for 4 years now. It sounds as though they are still waiting for 2019 info
     

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  14. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Elizabeth, I know you have the best interests of the railway at heart. I'm not sure the railway are actually on speaking terms with you at the moment.... but here it is. If the reason the accounts have not been done is because the TVR do not have the funds to pay the accountant (which given 2020 on top of all that went before, is possible) tell them to get in touch with me. I may well be willing to pay the accountants bill if that is what is causing the problem.
    cheers, Ross
     
  15. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering if that was the problem. Accountants, like lawyers, are not cheap !
     
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  16. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    There priorities do seem to be wrong. It is essential to pay your way, especially with official matters.
     
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  17. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. Not many steam railways actually do pay their way in normal times, and some in England would have come unstuck without the government handouts. The Welsh Assembly has been less forthcoming, and the TVR has had a run of misfortunes that put it in a precarious position anyway. Last year, just as they were getting back on their feet after significant setbacks, the lockdown put paid to any income the group might have hoped for. I am a society member anyway, so I'd be helping my society pay our way.
    Don't really see the issue.
     
  18. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member

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    They do have a contact form (and an email address) on their website. . . .
     
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  19. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they do. However I already give them some money. IF the accountant's bill is the problem, then I'm willing to solve that problem. If, on the other hand, the issue is general twattery and incompetence, and the issue is not funds but something else, then I'm not willing to waste my cash on a dead duck.
     
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  20. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member

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    I was more wondering why you apparently prefered to pass messages via Elizabeth rather than contacting them directly.
    (Nothing against Elizabeth, just wondering is all. Not that it's really any of my business )
     
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