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Talyllyn Finances

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by brennan, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    The Talyllyn will survive long term it is just a question of in what form. It could easily pare back and run an operation more in line with the Vale of Rheidol’s. Long term the big advantage some of the welsh narrow gauge lines have over the standard gauge is that cost to repair and maintain locos, carriages and track are generally much less and can be done with less infrastructure. The TR could if it wished operate a one engine in steam service requiring only four operating staff on duty. They also own all their own loco’s and rolling stock.


    That though is obviously not what the TR is intending and it has within the management and volunteers those with the drive and ideas to move it forward. They just need to be allowed to. One of the great things about the TR is that they have never become overly commercial, and due to their structure changes tend to happen slowly. However it also has its down side and there are a certain number in influential positions who in my view are still off the opinion that simply being a preserved railway should be enough to attract passengers and that this is the way the TR does things and that is the end of the matter.


    There is a fine balance between being a preserved railway and being a tourist attraction and I think that some in the TR forget it is also the latter. Until it accepts that it will continue to struggle as the managers will not be given the direction and freedom to make the changes required. I am not talking about huge changes or things that change the ambience of the TR but as an example for 20 or 30 years there have been calls and sensible ideas with regard to having observation saloons. They are still as far off as ever. They need to operate and design timetables around what they believe best suit passengers who are the paying members of the general public rather than thinking like enthusiasts, especially elderly spinster enthusiasts.


    Yes it is a less popular area to visit that it used to be but to improve its finances I don’t think they need to reinvest the wheel there is just some tweaking required and to have those involved in running the railway to be a bit more business/commercially/touristy minded.
     
  2. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    The Fairbourne took a step back, looked who was its target market both in demographics and where they were coming from and have targeted advertising appropriately. The Vale of Rheidol similarly and the growth in numbers of both in recent years is a reflection that they were under performing in the past, esp the VofR which seemed to make little effort to attract passengers.

    It is always much easier looking from the outside in and I sometimes think that the best thing the TR management could do is take themselves away for a few days and try and start with a clean slate and see how/if they can best meet what they come. Presently or certainly in the past I think they have so many set criteria to meet that it really does not allow them to looks at things afresh.
     
  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    When you ask about how many residents of Bridgnorth visit the SVR would you be counting those who use the Railwaymans Arms as their regular watering hole?
     
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  4. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    I'm sure the TR will be OK, it's too important not to be. I do wonder however which will be the first railway to become insolvent and need rescuing. It's not so far fetched if some of them rely on bequests to balance the books.
     
  5. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    Didn't we have this debate during the recession? And wasn't the answer none of them???!!! The only railway I can think of to have severe financial issues I believe was Weardale, and wasn't that more of a 'Community Railway '???
     
  6. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    Circumstances change though. Let's say there is a new Govt incentive for people to leave their estates to the National Trust and the safety net of legacies disappears overnight. What then?
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Why single out the National Trust though? They are a large charity, but they are only one amongst thousands of charities that exist; nor are they active across all possible areas of charitable endeavour; nor do they have any formal relationship with the Government. They certainly aren't "The Department for Country Houses and Nice Countryside" with a panoply of Cabinet Ministers and Civil Servants in tow.

    So it is entirely reasonable to assume that over time different Governments may tinker with the incentives to donate to charities as a whole, but I can't see why - or indeed how - they would be able to fix those rules so as to be to the specific advantage on one single charity.

    Tom
     
  8. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    "lets say" delete National Trust substitute what you will
     
  9. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Which is one of the "hidden" assets of the SVR. For heritage lines to survive they need to offer more than just a train ride and the licensed premises at both Bridgnorth sand Kidderminster plus the Engine House at Highley do just that. Not only does it provide added value to the railway operation for visitors to the railway but also generates custom from the locality who may not be aware of any connection between the railway and the activity.

    I note from travelling around the country that those lines with catering outlets now look beyond railway visitors for custom and groups such as cyclists and ramblers appear to be a market that can be worth further encouragement; perhaps something for the Talyllyn to investigate ?
     
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  10. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    I last visited the talyllyn in 2008 and felt it didn't do well at explaining its history and existence.
     
  11. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just out of intrest, is there something like a residents railcard on the TR? Can those who reside in Abergnolwn still use the train to go and do their shopping in Towyn? Going back to @Steve B I know the SVR do a residents railcard, my mum now residing in Bewdley quite likes using the train to go and do some shopping in Bridgnorth. She has a few friends that way too so it can be a pretty sociable day out for her.
     
  12. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    Back in the 1960's and early 1970's, Miss Roberts from Cynfal Farm used the train every Friday morning to travel to Towyn to do the shopping for her and her brother. She got off at Pendre, went through the town and caught the train back from Wharf. She always enjoyed travelling in the van and chatting to the guard - just as she had for the previous 60 years, though in latter years the conversation was in English rather than in Welsh as it had been with Edward Thomas. I was always delighted to welcome into the van.
     
  13. lostlogin

    lostlogin Member

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    Unlike some other railways members of the TR have unlimited free travel so there is no need for a separate residents card. Other railways offer only offer a discount on fares or a limited number of free tickets.

    Last time I was there a lady who worked in the café at Dolgoch Falls Hotel appeared to be using the train to commute on the days she worked and others may do similarly.
     
  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Ok so if you join, you get free travel then? That's the TR's travel arrangement for its members?
     
  15. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    surely only free travel for life members?

    Just checked....ordinary members get unlimited travel plus facilities on the FR...what a bargain for £25...no wonder they are losing money!
     
  16. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Yes and certain Ffestiniog trains thrown in as well
    Iirc it is 3 trips per year on the Ffestiniog. They offer 3 TR trips as part of their membership benefits along with privilege rates on the WHR and free third class travel on the FR itself. They charge £30 for their membership.
     
  17. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    Not sure about that. If members didn't get unlimited free travel, would they pay for all their trips, or would they just not travel as much? After all, as long as a member travelling free doesn't cause the train to be full and leave behind someone who was willing to pay, he/she hasn't cost the railway anything. Maybe some locals do see membership as a season ticket, but not enough to be a serious problem. At least they are paying something; make it expensive and they'll just drive instead.

    They could just make it one free journey a year on the TR, but I doubt whether much extra revenue would be gained. Perhaps the reciprocal FR/TR arrangements are over-generous.

    John
     
  18. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Time was (1970's) when TR membership was actually less than a return ticket on the FR and you still had unlimited travel! Quite sensibly now no more but membership is still a bargain.
     
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  19. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    It's bargain , I'd better join....Probably wait until I;m there as it's not doable online by the looks of it
     
  20. Adam-Box

    Adam-Box Member

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