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Swanage Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Rumpole, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    Quite!

    But as has been pointed out elsewhere on this thread the investment over 35 years of countless thousands (millions?) of volunteer hours and many many Millions of pounds to rebuild the railway from nothing to connect with the main line really puts the recent contribution of £4.5M 'public money' in to perspective. Particularly as £3 of that was paid directly to Network Rail for the main line signaling.

    The contributors of those funds have a right to expect some value for money but they also need to consider just how much railway £4.5M buys in this day & age (not a lot) and how much they 'say' they are entitled to.

    They also would be wise to consider the ongoing health of the SR as the biggest single employer in the area and the biggest (paid for) tourist attraction in Dorset. Its economic contribution to the area runs far beyond its direct spend. Lets hope that this is all taken in to account and the railway is listened to and allowed to grow its own services for the mutual benefit of all concerned.

    As I said up thread its foolish to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  2. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    Just a quick note in response to the comments about what the importance of the mainline connection is...

    I am not sure if it is unique, but it may be unusual that the grounds on which SRCL hold the lease of the trackbed between Harmans Cross and Corfe Castle are explicitly to do with fulfilling DCC's public transport strategy. I think that more recently the leases have been consolidated, but the initial leases were held from Swanage Town Council (of the Swanage Station site) and DCC (from Northbrook Road Bridge to Harmans Cross. DCC only granted the lease from Corfe Castle to the BR boundary after an assessment of the relative benefits of a bypass around Corfe Castle using the trackbed and its reinstatement as a railway with a public transport function. I am less sure on the history of recent lease agreements (though these should be accessible to those who wish to find out), but would be pretty certain that they consolidate previous agreements and largely incorporate their terms.

    The key aspect of the lease beyond Harmans Cross, and its justification in the 1980s, was on the grounds of public benefit as part of the transport infrastructure of the local area. Whilst it is not so strong, it is partly analogous to other local authorities (think of Docklands Light Railway, or Supertram) where LA assets are passed over to a third party to fulfil something identified within the LA Transport Strategy - a build and operate arrangement. The key, glaring difference is that the SR bid was the only bidder (apart from road alternatives) and has funded its commitment by the combination of a heritage operation with its public transport obligation rather than up-front capital funding. The nuclear option if SR failed to fulfil the requirements of the lease would be for the local authority to serve notice and tender its public transport requirements to another 'bidder' (though the fallout and legal negotiation of asset transfer would be something to behold!). Certainly this potential was well-known to DCC some years ago and was why they retained their interest within the current arrangements.

    In a real way the survival of the heritage aspects of the line depend on fulfilling the public transport function that the railway project was initiated to fulfil, honouring the commitments of the local referendum held in the 1970s which led to the lease on Swanage Station, and honouring the commitment
    that was foundational to justifying the lease beyond Harmans Cross from DCC.


    Footnote: Unlike some commentary offered last year, the public transport justification for reinstatement of a rail service (and therefore granting of the lease in the 1980s) was not as a commuter service but to relieve pressure on local infrastructure during periods of high demand.
     
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  3. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    The current situation is that there are two leases covering the whole railway. The station site up to Northbrook road bridge is on a 100yr lease to Swanage Town Council. All the leases beyond Northbrook road and including the 'new' section up to the Network Rail boundary near Worgret Junction have now been consolidated into one new 100yr lease to Dorset County Council (DCC).

    The DCC lease contains an obligation for the Swanage Railway (SR) to operate the two year trial of the Wareham Service and to 'develop' ongoing services beyond that. The SR is obliged to allow another operator track access to do so if it does not want to operate them itself. The problem with this is that a modern mainline operation interleaved with the heritage damages the 'heritage experience' that is our core product, raises all the fare abstraction issues and will cause capacity and pathing problems.

    For these and other reasons I believe the long term health of the Swanage Railway will be best served by patiently allowing it to develop these services itself. The Isle of Purbeck has waited since 1976 for the reinstatement of services and has the heritage railway to thank for making possible what local and national government could not.

    Now lets take the time to find a way for both to coisist and not rush to allow big business in to squeeze the SR.
     
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  4. Leafent

    Leafent New Member

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    The thing is, the current Swanage Railway operation between Norden and Swanage provides a important public service and takes quite a few cars off the road - this on it's own would justify that part of the lease, ignoring the fact that the Swanage Railway is the one thing that stopped Swanage from turning into another dead seaside town, something a hourly sprinter service or a new road wasn't and isn't really going to provide.
     
  5. 5914

    5914 New Member

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    You confirm what my understanding of the effect of more recent changes to the lease arrangements. The interrelationship between the local transport objectives set by DCC and the lease to SR make it not the binary choice of 'heritage or public transport' that is sometimes implied - as I think you suggest the best way for both to co-exist to their mutual benefit is for SR to be in the driving seat for both parts of what could (and should) be a complementary pairing.

    Whilst the P&R does indeed perform a vital function that was a happy side-effect (unexpected by many at the time) of the planning constraints that meant Corfe could not be a terminus station for normal services. However, the underlying rationale behind DCC transport planning was (and almost certainly still is) to relieve traffic on the longer [Poole-]Bakers Arms-Wareham-Corfe Castle-Studland/Swanage corridor that is not alleviated by (and may even be exacerbated by) the Norden to Swanage P&R operation. Seen without the heritage considerations (which is how a local authority may well see it), a better solution would be a P&R from Holton Heath to Swanage - though practically impossible from a railway infrastructure perspective!

    Whilst the railway has had an undoubted effect on the local economy, this cannot explain why Studland/Shell Bay is an equal source of road traffic to Swanage, nor the success of just such a scheme as is mentioned with sprinters to St Ives. The wider transport argument is that removing a significant proportion of the Swanage traffic to rail (following the example of St Ives) would release road capacity between Bakers Arms and Wareham for Studland traffic, which can almost certainly never go to rail!

    Again, the best way for SR to control its own destiny, and fulfil the functions required by its external partners is for it to be in the driving seat; while some onlookers may wonder what the driver is doing, patience and understanding of the wider factors may be fruitful. My underlying point is that without DCCs interest in the wider transport matters that caused DCC to grant the extended lease in the late 80s/early 90s, SR would probably still be running from Swanage to Harmans Cross (if it had survived the early 1990s) and would not be the jewel it is now. To continue to thrive as that jewel SR has the delicate task of balancing potentially completing demands - which it is best placed to do if it has control of as many factors as it can retain.
     
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  6. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    It is worth pointing out though that St Ives is much less 'car friendly' than Swanage with very cramped streets, doesn't have the bus services that Swanage has and AFAIK the Car Parks provided for the Park & Ride are much larger
     
  7. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    Although I agree with most of your statement, the last few words are incorrect. The car park at Lelant Saltings, at the Hayle end of the park and ride, is considerably smaller than the Norden car park, especially when all sections at Norden are opened up. As for the car park at the St. Ives end, although quite large, a high proportion of the spaces are rented to local people and not available to the public.

    Stef.
     
  8. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    There are a couple of other car parks in St Ives for tourists, although much less conveniently sited than the Station and soon full on summer days.

    Always best to go by train if you can!

    Robin
     
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  9. 6960 Raveningham Hall

    6960 Raveningham Hall Member Friend

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    Only celebrity chefs can afford to park in the Cornwall Council - operated car parks in St. Ives!

    Stef.
     
  10. seawright

    seawright New Member

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  11. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    So was today's train according to its destination blind and those on all the stations it calls at. It is clearly popular and well used service, the cheap fare being a big draw. I sampled it from Sherborne and had a very enjoyable day.

    Peter
     
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  12. AnthonyTrains2017

    AnthonyTrains2017 Well-Known Member

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    Can’t get fares on trainLine.com? Is it book on day?
     
  13. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    I got my ticket from the booking office at Sherborne the day before, but it is a public service so you can get the special fare right up to departure time.

    Peter
     
  14. AnthonyTrains2017

    AnthonyTrains2017 Well-Known Member

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    How much? Corfe to Waterloo
     
  15. Daddsie71b

    Daddsie71b Member Friend

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    Think you have to buy a ticket to Salisbury. Four different services.
    London Salisbury
    Salisbury Weymouth
    Weymouth Corfe
    Wareham shuttles
    Although the Salisbury Corfe ticket is available as one
     
  16. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    Salisbury to Corfe Castle is a special fare of £10 return for this train only.

    Peter
     
  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    yes, you would have to buy a separate ticket Salisbury to London waterloo I would imagine you would have to also know the train time from Salisbury to book in advance so that you can remain on the train.
     
  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Interesting question as National Rail says £54.90 for this train on a 4 hour 9 minute journey but only £32.40 on the 16:28 service that takes 2 hours 21 minutes. So I guess you would have to buy the £10 Salisbury to Corfe return on the SWR website if you are not using the outbound leg and get Salisbury to Waterloo as a separate ticket.
     
  19. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    South West to the Seaside.

    Templecombe Station, ten o’clock this morning. The lady on the left is buying tickets for herself and her family to go to Weymouth on the special Saturday working from Salisbury to Corfe Castle.

    3EE205A9-CBE8-499E-8C9A-80B5A621C2B7.jpeg F2BD8906-38BE-4A7A-A17C-16A64DB26840.jpeg
     
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  20. Adam-Box

    Adam-Box Member

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    A bit off topic but never use Trainline as a booking engine. It is never cheaper than the TOCs own website because of the booking fee. The best booking engine is trainsplit which only charge a small fee IF they save you money by splitting tickets. (Also they will sell you a ticket for it).
     
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