Swanage Railway General Discussion

Erm, There was a steam loco on the other end,31806 when it arrived at Swanage.
From my advantage point in Swanage box I noted that all arrivals and certainly all departures were well loaded, the six coaches were required for all of the steam service.
The Dmmu all four coaches were well filled as well.

 

As has been mentioned by others up thread - the picture is most unlikely to be on the Swanage Branch.
There were never any topiary examples at Harmans Cross (or along the whole Swanage to Norden section) as seen on the right of the photo. I can't recall seeing anything like it on the Norden to Furzebrook section either.
To my knowledge, we never used a front bucket loader of the make depicted. The ones we did use, over the years, were involved in ground excavations - not laying sleepers.
We laid sleepers on a flat ballast bed or a bed prepared with heaps of ballast along the line (supporting sleepers only underneath the area of the chairs). We certainly avoided amounts of ballast in the four foot, as seen in the photo, as this could easily 'break the back' of sleepers once rails were installed and trains started running.
The chairs appear to be two-bolt GWR varieties which we tried to avoid using.
The track bed behind the front loader - and into the distance - looks disturbed. This is another indication that sleepers have been removed rather than a track bed prepared for sleepers to be laid.
The possibility of the site being near the cutting at Ponderosa Farm is also easily refuted. We relaid the line from Swanage towards Corfe Castle and Norden [i.e. what would have to be from behind the photographer]. There are no buildings on the Up side (left) like those in the picture nor ever have been. There is also no obvious evidence the location shown is in a cutting. Another point is that you couldn't see distant hills. The line past Ponderosa Farm climbs at 1 in 78 through The Wilderness and this is, and has been for many decades, a heavily forested area. In the opposite direction the line drops towards Swanage but you would see the A351 bridge over the railway so that too rules out Ponderosa Farm.
All the above leads me to believe this picture was not taken on the Swanage branch. Unfortunately, I have no clue as to where it might have been.
Perhaps this picture should be moved to the Picture Puzzle thread in the hope of getting different eyes on the apparent mystery.

 

Yes but the fact is that trains advertised as steam are diesel hauled with the steam loco on the back just a show pony. I will keep away from my favourite line until things return to normal

 

The fact that the DMU was packed as well as the steam/diesel service indicates that people just wanted to be moved from A to B. The railway carrying out it's primary function.

 

If railway signalling was upgraded allowing the 'wareham' service to pass a train at Norden then next summer they could run a two steam or steam and the class 33 40/45 minute frequency service between Norden and Swanage.

Then have the DMU only running to either Norden or better Corfe Castle which would allow a hourly service.

That would allow the DMU to pass the steam at Norden and terminate at Corfe. Then the Swanage bound steam service would come in 5/10 mins later and in the other direction. Steam comes in, leaves. DMU leaves 5/10 mins later and passes at Norden and onwards to Wareham. The normal service run round might have to be increased to 20 (from old school 15 ) mins but that could work. It would need more investments. A dream perhaps.

If not, longer term, perhaps it is better to change at Norden and build a 2nd 4 car platform with an hourly DMU to Wareham then normal services every 40/45 mins to Swanage

 

Primarily yes but in my many visits this year and in particular last Saturday I watched the crowds round 31806 at Corfe when we arrived on the 1520 Swanage and then later a little girl saying to her mum ''oh but its not a steam engine'', when the return train arrived from Norden with 33111 on the front. Would it not be possible to use the diesel shunter to perform shunt and release at Swanage?

 

Wasn’t that all discussed a bit up thread?

The issue with shunt-release moves is that they are very time consuming, particularly if you have to disembark everyone from the train first. So you employ six carriages to manage the passenger numbers but then screw the frequency of trains because of the need for complex station working.

(I'd be suprised if you could reliably do a shunt release move at Swanage with passengers present and also allow the loco to take water from the current position, in less than about 45 minutes).

Tom

 

Would it work if the DMU followed close behind a steam service and then the DMU terminates at Corfe and the steam leaves (as happens with the 1719 DMU ex Wareham), crossing the next steam ex Swanage at Harmans Cross?

 

Well it is not going to change for the last couple of weeks is it Don, that would need a recast of the timings on NR and or a recast of the the SR timetable. Then on a busy day you would be emptying 3 coaches from a DMU onto maybe an already full train at Norden, Corfe being unattractive as the passengers would have to cross the bridge. Then maybe it would be full on arrival at Corfe and those passengers have no where to sit.
If Wareham runs in future years the learning from this year will prove useful. There are always very busy weeks in Swanage, Carnival, Lifeboat weeks etc as far as I can see 6 coaches have been needed for (and then only some) of about 18 days.

 

It was suggested, and a draft working timetable prepared, that the Wareham service operate between Wareham and Corfe Castle / Norden only so that by operating 5 or 6 times a day, the market for services to / from Wareham could be better tested or at least differently tested to that in 2017.

I note the comments about 6 car trains and being very busy. In 2017 in the peak purple timetable there 2 steam locos in service operating every 40 minutes in both directions plus the diesel hauled 4 times a day Wareham service. That is 16 or 17 trains in each direction per day. (Cant remember if the last train was 1720 or 1800). Compare that to this years green peak timetable of 8 services per day in each direction. Whilst it could be argued that the purple timetable overserved the core Norden <> Swanage section (and hence another reason for the suggestion of operating the Wareham to and from Norden / Corfe Castle only) one has to ask if this years green timetable underserves the core Norden <> Swanage section especially for those customers wanting steam traction.

I would be interesting to see what the learnings are and if they are actually disseminated to a wider audience.

 

Easiest way to do it at Swanage is actually remove the arriving loco at the Swanage Inner Home signal; drop that into the Loop, and then use a Class 33 to draw the train into the Platform to a 6 car mark provided for the purpose. The steam loco can then shunt from the Loop to the Platform and take water while on the train, if that stop mark is used.

Can be done in c15-20 minutes at most, and removes the need for any shunting/propelling. However, for it to work properly you need a separate Shunter, and a Signalman who's very much on the ball.

Of course, it's not as simple an option as top and tailing, however it does mean steam both ways.

 

Have the Swanage Railway received any complaints from the general public about there being a diesel on the front of the train from Norden to Swanage? Or is it just the usual band of keyboard warriors?
I would suggest that had there not been 6 coaches on the steam and all four on the DMMU, There would most certainly have been passengers having to stand which in my opinion would be totally unacceptable.

 

Andy

What I've stated in my post is for 6 coach operation; it's how we've done it a number of times in the past, including on old yellow timetable days with a 40 minute timetable when 6 coach operation was desired.

The big problem at present (in my opinion) is a poor timetable with insufficient trains at busy times and an excessive interval between services. The one Wareham service that runs earlier in the middle of the day destroys the overall service pattern.

 

seconded

 

The 2017 trial had a 2nd steam service where the steam train following the Wareham DMU by 10 mins (allowing mainline passenger to change at Corfe or Norton), maybe in 2024 if funding is feasible?.

 

A work colleague (non enthusiast) visited the SR this week, and was complaining to me about how they ‘seem to be moving to diesel operation’. Apparently even with the diesel on the back of the train they could hear the engine throbbing away and doing a lot of the work.

I think it’s fair to say that at least some visitors are going away disappointed because of it.

 

In the 2017 Peak season part of the trial, the Wareham services were 1026, 1226, 1426 and 1626 off Swanage. This fitted with the SR's standard 40-minute interval two train timetable, whether this be two steam, or one steam one diesel.

This year, the Wareham departures from Swanage are 1214, 1423 and 1623 (the first trip starting from Corfe). You can see how this does not aid a regular service pattern on the internal part of the operation.

 

The 563 will be hopefully be running after the peak season for families, so probably 6 coaches will not be needed for visiting enthusiasts (unless the 563 runs to Frome bridge). Then October/early November no trains running for track maintenance and perhaps work on the new carriage shed?.
Not sure if the 563 will be running on the Polar Express which will be 6 coaches, but perhaps using a larger steam loco (to match the film) and a diesel?

 

Swanage has always prided itself on being a steam railway. Increasing the % of diesel for whatever reason risks alienating the traditional customers who certainly perceive that the fare is for a steam experience.

Measuring customer satisfaction just by counting the number / percentage of complaints is a very crude measure. Despite the ease of sending emails / posting on social media the reality is that many dissatisfied customers simply do not return rather than submitting a complaint. When the issue is something as subjective as steam:diesel traction in the same train then it may not be perceived consciously as dissatisfaction but the customer may still choose to take their patronage elsewhere in the future. They may not even consciously realise all the factors which go to making that decision.

Having passengers stand is very harmful to the perception of satisfaction. Passengers with a diminished tolerance of standing time, young children who may not anticipate the "jerk" of setting off and coming to a halt and wobble and potentially fall.

Taking all things together I think there must be some very real causes for concern.

How damaging is diesel traction to the customer perception of the Swanage Railway experience? What actions could be taken to offset any negative perceptions of using diesel traction? Those are two questions to pose to candidates for the CEO post. Perhaps the Company Chairman and Trust Chairman would care to post in this thread what (1) an acceptable answer would be (2) what an outstanding answer would be?

 

I think you have to be realistic, its a harsh world out there now If it costs more to steam an second engine than you take in fares, you won't be running anything next year, if that means one steam, one diesel, plus the Wareham service and you cover your costs, that is the way you do it, Prehaps an explanatory notice put in the booking hall window explaining why might help, What i will agree is that the timetable does need to be looked at, reverting to the previous timetable looks to make more sence with an regular departure time,