Swanage Railway General Discussion

007, Can I give some advice?
If you want to have a pleasant time on here, Don't mention the 'G' word!
Trust me, I learnt very fast.

 

I would suggest, given the current financial situation, that running trains from Wareham to Swanage is very far down the current list of priorities for DCC. The £5m they spent will have been written off many years ago and it’s only people asking questions that is keeping the project alive. I suspect most DCC officials would be quite happy to draw a line under the whole thing.

 

They (or their predecessors) spent public money with the intention of allowing some sort of railway service to be introduced between Wareham and Swanage. Exactly what sort of service might be viable was uncertain, hence the agreement for a limited experimental service to start with. That happened for a few months one year and there have been very good reasons for not trying again just yet, but if I were one of the officials or councillors responsible I wouldn't want to write the whole thing off without at least the intended second experimental season*. What has actually changed, since the original decision to spend the money, to make what seemed possible now seem impossible? (Honest question, hoping for an answer, not rhetorical.)

* Edit: Either a second season or clear evidence of a substantial change in circumstances since the money was allocated.

 

I would tend to agree. Whilst the possibility of DCC imposing another operator onto the SR still exists, the chances of it happening, at least in the foreseeable future, are very minimal.

 

From Dorset Council's point of view, I'd suggest a lot has changed, notably the whole economic outlook has worsened and there is very little money available for anything that isn't a statutory service.

So what was spent in the past is largely irrelevant: that's gone, it delivered some benefit to the Swanage Railway (a mainline connection). Probably harder to say exactly what benefit it delivered to the general residents of Dorset, but it's all water under the bridge now, spent years ago by a different administration.

The question is therefore future spending, and I'd suggest that unless there is an amount already identified in a budget to support a further trial, it will be well nigh impossible to find any such money from DC's budget. What are you going to cut to deliver it when council's are already slashing arguably more valuable services like libraries?

So I suspect it is dead in the water. Swanage Railway can say with some justification that their financial situation, post covid and in the current economic situation, won't allow them to run it without subsidy. DC can say there is no money for subsidy. Meanwhile the threat of "if you don't run it, you must make your tracks available for someone else" will come to nothing since no-one else is likely to come forward without a subsidy being in place.

I'd suggest that the situation will probably drag on for another couple of years with no trial happening, and then the SR and DC will quietly conclude an agreement (which would likely need approval by the relevant Transport committee within their committee structure) to dissolve the obligation. At which point SR can concentrate on just running a successful heritage railway, with the added bonus of a mainline connection which can be used occasionally to bring in ballast, tampers, visiting engines and charters; you might see a dozen or so movements over the connection each year, including maybe one or two inbound passenger charters.

Tom

 

This. We live in changed times. Plans agreed previously will need to be reworked.

 

Since the 2017 trial, More Bus have introduced additional fully commercially operated Breezer 30 and 35 services giving an almost half hourly service between Wareham and Swanage during the day in the summer. These additional services also run via Harmans Cross so are quicker than the normal Breezer 40.

 

If both sides have any sense I suggest leave well alone.

 

That all makes sense, thank you, but I am left wondering what the expectations were at the time when the then Council provided the cash. Did they really envisage paying a continuing subsidy (and/or did the Railway envisage receiving it) for running the service, on top of the capital expenditure for establishing the main line connection? Or did it seem at the time that some sort of service (hours and dates of operation to be determined) might actually be commercially viable? Were both parties being unreasonably optimistic?

 

Yes it might be an interesting exercise to know, but really moot now I suspect.
As @Jamessquared has eloquently put the world has moved on.
I think I may have mentioned before the outrage in some quarters down here when an extra £1 (I think a week but maybe a month) was added to the police precept, this despite the visible presence of the police being, say we say in birding terms "occasional".
I can image the outrage at some extra to fund a rail service, or a reduction in say the social care spend to accommodate it.
It does seem that Heritage Railways not only try to create railways of the past but an economic attitude of the past. On that basis all those major airlines would still be flying B747's because that is what there 2015 business plan said.

 

Currently the Heritage DMU is running on the "Winter Explorer" which at some point will be extended to Wareham, from the Chairman's report in the Summer SR magazine, "we have an absolute obligation to run the trial - to get behind it and make it a success".
I notice some events announced:
7 – 8 JAN 2023 Winter Warm Up
24 - 26 MAR 2023 Spring Steam Gala
12 – 14 MAY 2023 Diesel Gala and Beer Festival (a good time to start the Wareham trail to link in with SWR?)
23 – 25 JUN 2023 Roads to Rail (maybe 563 in steam?)

 

A couple of things leapt out at me from this post.
To my knowledge there are only two steam locos that have been moved by rail that are not already mainline approved. I assume there must be a cost to getting them approved for rail movement as chatting to a guy associated with one of the diesels in the convoy for a Swanage Gala there were ultrasonic NDT checks on axles and wheels needed which I assume do not come cheap and only last for a period of time. I would assume there are more checks on a steam loco as it needs to be in light steam for a rail move. Who would pick up those costs?
If S.A Smith or Alleys were moving these locos would you expect them to do it for free? If not then why should WCRC? They are all commercial operations after all.

 

every loco that travels by network rail has to be registered, and on tops, As regards movement, perhaps i was not very clear, i meant sponsorship, of the costs, if such an project was ever to happen, would moving engines in convoy like that, be cheaper than separate low loader movements, ?

 

I do think this is Martin living in the realms of fantasy again, it would be nice but I really can’t see it happening,
Regarding a similar sort of deal, I really wouldn’t mind an evening with Cara Delvagine, If your happy to sponser me Martin I’m more than happy to take one for the team.

 

You can either have a DMMU service between Swanage and Wareham, or a Top and tailed service to/from Frome river bridge as per previous Diesel Galas, but not both!
Of course the service to/from Wareham depends on .-1. When the Office of Road and Rail actually grant the license to operate the service.
2 Swanage Railway DMMU Drivers and guards route learning and being passed out to operate between Frome River bridge and Wareham.

I must admit that I have found some of the posts about DCC bringing in an outside train operator very amusing given that the nearest depot with Diesel multiple units is Salisbury and SWR currently are unable to run a through service from Weymouth to London Waterloo. passengers having to change at Southampton! Also there has not been a train service on the Brockenhurst Lymington branch for weeks.
Source: Real time trains.

 

There are a lot more than that. For example 34070, 34028 and 30053 from Swanage to Eastleigh for the open day in 2009. 41312 and 35005 (possibly one other?) from the Mid Hants to the same event. 35005 wasn’t even in light steam.

So long as they pass the necessary axle tests etc, it’s relatively straight forward.

Not that I’m saying anyone would move a load of locos around for free, like Martin is suggesting for his dream gala.

 

Cara, says thanks but no thanks. she's fully booked up but, Anne Widdicombe might be free,

 

Depends on how the gala organisers want to run them. Someone will probably start a thread in the gala section to discuss more.

Last year's Swanage Diesel gala seemed to just concentrate on the large diesel locos pulling either SR MK1 carriages or goods wagons.
Whereas the MHR diesel gala in contrast had several various DMUs, and also 33111 running the LU 4TC unit in push pull.

Quite a while back there was a LU 4TC mainline charter which brought enthusiasts from Waterloo for the Swanage diesel gala weekend, and was used for runs to Wareham.
So running the 117 DMU between Swanage and Wareham to link with SWR (if various things can be sorted) could be both part of the 2023 gala, beer festival and good publicity for the start of the 2023 trial (if the updated business case, where the SR got an extra grant for, is viable, but there has been no recent project updates).

Would be good to also have another 4TC charter, but perhaps the Swanage 4TC group might have part of their own blue/grey 4TC unit running for the first time at the May 2023 gala?.
https://www.facebook.com/363275907035365/posts/5400802286616010

The top and tailed service to/from Frome river bridge could still run as part of the 2023 steam gala with steam locomotives.

 

[QUOTE="Andy Moody, post: 2785706, member: 1660

I must admit that I have found some of the posts about DCC bringing in an outside train operator very amusing given that the nearest depot with Diesel multiple units is Salisbury and SWR currently are unable to run a through service from Weymouth to London Waterloo. passengers having to change at Southampton! Also there has not been a train service on the Brockenhurst Lymington branch for weeks.
Source: Real time trains.[/QUOTE]
Andy, West Coast Railways are based in Carnforth, yet they ran services for SR in 2017.

 

Andy, West Coast Railways are based in Carnforth, yet they ran services for SR in 2017.[/QUOTE]

But I assume that an awful lot of money was thrown at WCRC to do it and that included use of depot facilities at Swanage