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Swanage Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Rumpole, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. oliversbest

    oliversbest New Member

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    See the above post. What could i possibly say to SR Mgt. They know the stated founding objectives of the SRS. Given the present encouragement issued by bodies such as this All Party Committee they are the elected negotiators to make these common objectives work.
     
  2. 80104

    80104 New Member

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    Yes there is only so much money to go around but the "logic" of working on the T3 before the two non operational Moguls needs querying.

    AFAIK, and happy for someone to confirm or deny, the three Moguls belong to John Bunch and Swanage Railway is "hiring" / paying rent on all three of them.*

    Thus by prioritising the T3 to enter service first , the "out of revenue earning service but paying rental" period of the two non operational Moguls is longer than it might otherwise be and thus the overall cost of getting them into service is also greater than it might have been.

    Of course the decision of which loco to work on first may have been influenced by funding being made available by an outside party for the T3 and not the Moguls hence the progress on the T3 we now see.

    * It is of course possible that during COVID rental / hire payments for out of service locos may have been reduced / suspended.

    I am sure many members and supporters would like to see a summary of the loco restoration programme / fleet plan with planned in service dates either on the website or in the next SRM.

    Greater clarity may encourage donations and / or offers of support financial or labour.
     
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  3. DcB

    DcB Member

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    From the https://www.swanagerailwaytrust.org/giving page the Carriage Shed and Heritage Coaches appeals were first,
    It also answers another question about the LSWR coach body recently moved on a flat wagon now owned by the SR and "initially provide additional working space for the heritage coach restoration team" before being restored itself!
    https://www.swanagerailwaytrust.org/post/new-130-year-old-coach-body-arrives-at-the-swanage-railway
    Then the LSWR T3 Restoration and Wareham Project and Swanage Moguls Fund
    "The Swanage Railway now has the largest collection of Southern Railway Maunsell Mogul historic steam locomotives in the UK. Only one - U Class 31806 - is currently in traffic and we urgently need your help to restore 'N' class, no. 31874 built in 1925, and then 'U' class No. 31625, built in 1929, to fully operational condition. All engines will be overhauled to mainline standards to enable them to operate to and from Wareham and beyond in future."
    However that means the T3, 31874, Drummond M4, 34072 257 Squadron, Manston and TC4 overhauls all after "urgent" funds.
    It's possible from the Sothern locos website Manston might replace the rented loco? "It will return to Herston for the team to complete the task of refitting all the brake gear, cab fittings etc. Some attention will be paid to the paintwork but the plan is to put it back into traffic as soon as possible in 'weathered' condition. "
    Found the news item, but not the full report and if it will help with extra funding the Wareham project (for 2022?), and if it is dependant on the outcome feasibility study the Government paid for??
    https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2021/07/21-new-proposals-to-boost-tourism.html
     
  4. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody New Member

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    Please correct me if I am wrong, but that was the one and only time the green set has ever run over Network rail track for 31806's mainline test run.
    I don't positively know but suspect that there was special dispensation given by NR on the day.
    A lot of things have happened since May 2016, Notably a three car class 117 totally restored and a class 121 totally overhauled to main line standards with
    AWS TPWS and central door locking, Indeed, the class 117 looked very smart on Monday at Harmans cross crossing with 78018 on the green set.
    The chance of 31806 and a set of Mk1,s steaming into Wareham are certainly WIBN at best and not ever likely to happen, at least not for the foreseeable future.
    If you did want Steam and Swanage Rly Mk 1's to steam into Wareham, you don't just "Slap" central door locking on and off to go, I would suggest that
    the five coaches to run this service would need to go to either Eastleigh or Barrow Hill for restoration to main line standards, also a second Locomotive would have to be fitted with AWS/TPWS all for running over less than two miles of NR track! So who is going to fund all this ?
    Sorry, to pour water over your aspirations but this debate just does not add up.
     
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  5. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    At the risk of re-opening a can of worms, the same laudable aim was espoused by several lines, though in all cases, impractically as it transpired. IMO, these days, the Swanage actually comes closest already, with Norden P&R.

    Of others, I recall the Talyllyn tried a (Fridays only) diesel hauled shoppers service for a couple of winters, back in the late 50s. The Ffestiniog was part of the 'Red Star' parcels network for a while. The RH&DR's contracted 'Schools Service' operated for many years. A combination of ferry & Fairbourne has served during a handful of occasions when Barmouth Bridge was OOS and the Leadhills & Wanlockhead provided a 'bus replacement service' during a planned road closure.

    Over on the IoM, in recent times, the IMR (possibly the MER too) has operated in lieu of bus services (IIRC, at bus prices, with bus tickets being accepted .... but they're nationalised!). There's a decent case to be made for claiming the IMR's operation has provided a vital public mental health function during the pandemic!
     
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  6. oliversbest

    oliversbest New Member

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    Swanage Railway is advertising a Road and Rail week end event at Norden in late August, Could we not run the DMU from Wareham to such an event. Steam coming in a one end and Diesel at the other. Sounds like an attraction to me!!
     
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  7. ady

    ady New Member

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    The whole reason that 31806 (well it was meant to be 31874 but what ever) has been fitted with TWPS and other mainline equipment (paid for by a Government Grant, as described in the article I shared) was to work Swanage to Wareham services with a set of Mark 1s. This was also part of the rational why D6515's owners fitted that loco with the equipment...

    If you think that that isn't the plan at all, why the hell do you think they taken 31806 mainline? Just to do a minor trips with rail tours? I think Swanage would be in trouble with the government if that was the case.

    The Mark 1s have been fitted with modifications to the buckeyes. No further work happened so far, possibly because, as I have already said, there is a coach shortage at the moment caused by Covid 19
     
  8. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Well-Known Member

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    Which TOC would operate that (assuming there are any drivers qualified to drive a 117) and how much would that cost for crews for the weekend?
     
  9. DcB

    DcB Member

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    The website says there will be a diesel evening service, so DMU or 33?
    They could apply for a special "charter" type Corfe to Wareham service with an existing mainline operator and staff? But no mention (yet). I expect there will be another vintage bus to Wareham?.
    Also to add from Southern loco website 80104 is also after funds.
    "80104's boiler ticket expired on 11th May and it now awaits overhaul. It was in service up to its last day. The better news is that we have an agreement with a generous supporter to loan much of the cost (roughly £200,000) of the overhaul. Understandably, that supporter is looking to others to bear part of the cost, and we'll be making a direct appeal shortly to Swanage Railway supporters for financial help"
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 3:35 PM
  10. Jupiter

    Jupiter New Member

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    The website says “special evening heritage diesel railbus service” so I guess it is planned as DMU.
     
  11. DcB

    DcB Member

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  12. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The Swanage Railway did win a £75,000 grant from the DfT back in 2016 that was "to add main line capability to a steam locomotive and set of 5 coaches".

    I have no idea whether £75k was enough to fund it, but there was funding explicitly to do what you say isn't happening.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/rail-tourism-winners-announced

    Tom
     
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  13. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    Just accept that you are wrong and stop digging.

    There was no special dispensation given to run the 5 Mk1s on the mainline as a one off. They were brought up to mainline standard at Swanage, and remain certified to run on the mainline. Albeit unable to carry passengers until door locking is fitted.

    There already is a second locomotive fitted with APS and TPWS - the class 33.

    If you still don’t believe this I’d suggest you spend more time reading the official statements from the Swanage Railway that have been linked to in this thread.
     
  14. DcB

    DcB Member

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    The DFT statement says "Swanage Railway Trust: extending the Swanage Railway heritage steam services - £75,000. Extending the railway’s heritage steam services will enable the railway to add main line capability to a steam locomotive and set of 5 coaches with a capacity for 330 passengers and attract more tourists and day trippers to the region and to rail travel."
    So would have thought the mainline certification included the central door locking? The cost for 30 door solenoid locks, plus effort, wiring and control units would probably be more than the grant? Someone here suggested manual locks for the Norden to Wareham section (like on some of the Welsh Narrow gauge lines) as a low cost possibility for 31806, the 5 coaches and the 33 to run sometimes, instead the DMUS, assuming the TOC licence, more training, repair of the 33012 diesel, etc?
    In many ways the Wareham project is so close, other ways still a way off?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 8:03 PM
  15. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    Nope!
    13K tickets sold = 13K people carried.
    The ticket vendor is irrelevant. Except they might take a cut and reduce the ultimate revenue.

    I'm afraid at some point you will have to accept the data for what it is saying and stop trying to force it to prove the outcome you want it to.
    Its really a very un scientific and un business like approach.
    I wish there was a love button as well as a like button!
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 9:37 PM
  16. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    They would need SR agreement and to pay a track access fee. SR Driver and guard required to shadow their counterparts whilst on SR metal. SR metal extends nearly all the way to Worgret Junction.

    Up to a point SR can just say no if they don't want to accommodate the service or don't like the terms offered. There is a clause in the SR 100 yr track lease that if invoked could force SR to offer paths to a ToC but only if SR had given up on its own service so not likely to happen whilst SR is using best endeavours to get its service running. With the ToCs struggling to make the main line pay and an absence of suitable stock however there arnt many ToCs beating a path to the door.
     
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  17. Mogul

    Mogul Member

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    Have to disagree here Andy, SR has main line loco, Main line MK1 Stock (*) and mainline crews. In Fact the recent 31806 excursion on the mainline was entirely crewed by SR staff and volunteers abet working under WCR that day. Once the ToC status is granted its a comparatively minor extension to add the capacity to operate steam as well. Things like extending the main line competency and training system to steam crews and extending the Engineering competency to steam. Its pretty much there but just needs the imputes to make it happen.

    You are correct.
    No
    Already overhauled and inspected to that standard before the test run you refer to hence no derogation needed. It wasn't passenger carrying so no door locking req
    31806 and the 33 already so fitted. N to mainline standard but needs OTMR & TPWS.


    The biggest barrier is actually the lack of a run around capability due to the Wareham foot crossing preventing the east crossover being commissioned. A top and tail config overcomes this but requires the 33, and additional crew.

    (*) The secondary door locking is the only thing between the MK1s and Passenger Main Line use. This is basically good old fashioned bolts and door stewards. OK for occasional use but central door locking would be needed for more regular use.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 10:16 PM
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    You can’t back up what you say with facts! What’s Mr Moody going to do now! ;)
     
  19. oliversbest

    oliversbest New Member

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    What is currently preventing the class 117 and the class 122 running into Wareham??
    The faithful contributed to several appeals for rebuilding the track to Worgret and to be able to buy into the signalling revamp at Wareham/Worgret
    Is the SR realising a return on those investments?
     
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  20. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

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    Probably completely ignore the facts and keep talking about what he would suggest, or what he would think. Much like he did before.
     

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