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Swanage Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Rumpole, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture

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    The T9 is hauling service trains today. Not a hint of black clag to be seen. ;) <BJ>
     
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  2. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Maybe this thread struck a nerve! :D
     
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  3. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Active Member

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    My views on things are obviously at divergence with people on here so I will ask the moderators to remove my access to the site, and I will in future keep my views and my images to myself. I will say in leaving however that the hobby of railways generally (not just Heritage) is amazingly environmental unfriendly regardless of any issues of black smoke.

    We have large numbers of steam and diesel locomotives being moved around the country on low loaders for galas, and in many cases only staying there for a weekend. Likewise we have diesel convoys taking, in many cases, the same locos in convoy to multiple galas. That is before we all jump into cars to go and see them perform elsewhere. I understand people still travel hundreds of mile to take a few images on Shap or the S&C.

    This year in addition to the movement of mainline approved locos under their own power we even had a steam loco towed (apparently I must use the word “dragged”) to a gala by a diesel.

    I vowed not to attend any galas other than those at Swanage, (and only failed in this as I had promised my father a trip to the GCR for his birthday), not for any environmental reason but because it all seems a little pointless. Yet I have still so far this year managed to rack up 907 miles never getting further than Creech Bottom photographing on the railway here, not exactly “green” either.

    This is all of course before you look at the “big railway” where diesel seems to be preferred to electric, first generation diesel get put back into front line service, and even on electrified lines we have diesel hauled freights.
     
  4. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Active Member

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    I don’t think it is necessary to leave the site because people disagree about the merits or not of black smoke.

    You are quite correct that railways do face environmental questions and issues but this thread is perhaps not the best place to discuss it.

    I will just say two things, one as someone who wants railways to do well. We always need to be on our best behaviour because there are plenty of people out there who do not share our enthusiasm for railways and will pick up on anything that they can use as a stick to beat us with. You only need to see the issues of the RVR or L&B to see this. Environmental pollution is a very obvious issue and one we should be on our guard against. We are polluting but we should do our best to mitigate it. This takes me onto my next point.

    When I was firing I would be mortified if my loco were producing that much smoke. Maybe there are reasons for it. When firing, I prided myself on keeping fuel consumption low, good pressure not too much (lifting the safety valves and wasting steam pains me) and not too little. It is not easy to do and as I say there may well be reasons why the loco was producing so much smoke.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  5. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture

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    Don't be so daft, after all you didn't produce the clag.

    Since moving to Swanage, quite unwittingly, you have become national-preservation's Swanage Railway news photographer, so don't quit now.

    Don't fret about a small number of comments from our members, just get on with it and keep the photographs coming. <BJ>
     
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  6. SouthWestMainline

    SouthWestMainline New Member

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    With the best will in the world all steam crews have at some point made a bit more smoke than they wished.
     
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  7. SouthWestMainline

    SouthWestMainline New Member

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    And a very good job too may I say....
     
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  8. CH 19

    CH 19 Active Member Friend

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    Seconded,
    and yes I am an enviromentalist in my own way but I also understand the meanings of balance and of harmony.
    Chris
     
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  9. twr12

    twr12 Active Member

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    Well, as T9 is currently Swanage’s smallest loco, PH had to find something to moan about......
     
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  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Doesn't matter what the size of the machine is, the operators need to have a care.
     
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  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Clearly the use of heritage traction, either on heritage lines or mainline charters, is polluting just to provide leisure entertainment; however, you can make rational arguments that it also provides a business, employment etc to offset those impacts. All businesses, including leisure businesses, pollute and as a society we weigh up the impacts against the benefits (how many miles are driven by fans travelling to a big sporting occasion just for entertainmemt, for example?)

    That said, even if you accept some pollution is inevitable, that shouldn’t be an excuse to provide more than is necessary. I’m slightly loathe to criticise footplate crew on the basis of one photo - it’s possible that the smoke may have been momentary on starting, and cleared when the fireman cracked the doors as the loco got underway. I wasn’t there and don’t know. But just as loco crew need to practise good firing technique at all times in respect of producing smoke - which is part of the training of crews, and has been since time immemorial - so I think it is beholden on photographers to consider the impact that a single photo, maybe taken out of context or showing an otherwise unrepresentative moment in time - may have. Were I the Swanage Loco Superintendent, I wouldn’t be especially pleased to see the photo @Robin Moira White published above, particularly since my general experience at Swanage is that such scenes are actually rare.

    Tom
     
  12. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture

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    Sadly it appears that Gladiator 5076 has departed from the group. :mad:

    No matter how bad the weather was, Gladiator 5076 was always out there to capture the scene. <BJ>
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    We hope @Gladiator 5076 chooses not to leave as the images are welcome for the reasons you mention. And just to add that they have reappeared as thumbnails rather than full size because the file size was too large and this was slowing down the loading of the page.

    (A reminder to all folk that resizing images before posting them on NP makes them more visible, especially on hand held devices.)
     
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  14. Daddsie71b

    Daddsie71b Member Friend

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    It always irritates me at some sporting occasions there are great fire ball effects obviously powered by LPG, dumping carbons into the air.
    No one seems to complain about that because there is no smoke.
     
  15. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture

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    I doubt if there will be any complaints about pollution at midnight on New Year's Eve .....apart from around the Hayling Island district. ;)

    The clag shown in the photograph of the T9 is a non starter compared to the many bonfires and firework displays around 5th November. <BJ>
     
  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Active Member

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    It is very easy to slide into ‘whataboutery’, but the issue here is the pollution that we make, not the pollution that other people make. We need to be the ‘good citizens’ in the local community.
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Although highly critical of smoke produced by footplate crew I am well aware of the inevitable production of smoke when a cold engine starts off. When the loco is being lit up or simply standing around soot particles are deposited in the tubes and the smokebox. These remain until the first strong blasts from the blastpipe dislodges them as the loco gets under way. The result is always a brief period of black-ish smoke. However, this effect only lasts a couple of seconds.
     
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  18. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Edited
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Quite, which is why I am loathe to criticise the crew on the basis of a single photo - but others may not be so forgiving, hence my view of the risk of publishing such photos, which may well be used without the contextual understanding of why a loco produces smoke, and for how long.

    Tom
     
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  20. 2392

    2392 Active Member

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    Interesting this debate on black smoke when running. I used to have a poster with the three main contestants in the Liverpool & Manchester Railways' Rainhill Trails. As well as line drawings of the locos, it had the specification of what the L&M were looking for with regards to said locomotive. One of which specified that it should "consume" it's own smoke, i.e. burn coke which is smokeless. Which considering all those "dark satanic" not to mention smoky mills of Manchester struck me at the time and to a degree still does as a bit odd....... Still shows the the Government had at least half an eye on the environment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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