SVR General Discussion

I'm a member at the SVR and have been for a number of years. I have fond memories of visiting with my parents as a child and I always have an enjoyable time when I visit now, often with my children. I want to support the railway as I enjoy visiting and even though its a 200 mile round trip, I'll probably visit 5-6 times a year. Similarly I'm a life member of the Welshpool and Llanfair and a member of the the Dean Forest, again because I enjoy visiting those lines and want to help them survive. I was a member of the FR for many years too but let that lapse when they decided to carry on with the Covid method of booking and no longer made visiting enjoyable. It may seem fickle but I have finite funds and want to spend that on things that make me happy.

 

No

 

My parents tell me that they get summary email of things on every so often since they donated to the survival fund last year.
Not weekly I believe though.

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I note that it's proposed to increase the membership rate again for next year (adult to £34 from £31). While I know it's important to match raising costs, I suspect that's not going to help membership numbers particularly.

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To be honest, I see railway membership as a tax efficient donation. The magazines are nice, especially when they go into more detail than web-based news, but not the reason.

I probably have travel concession on several railways (SVR, SDR, GWSR, ...) but I never use them. Partly I don't keep track of them, but more it undermines the donation nature if a membership effectively removes a ticket sale.

And I don't appear to need to justify memberships to my wife in the way I have to at least try to explain appeal donations

 

I take a different view of travel concessions, provided that they are only an opportunity cost and not displacing someone who will actually pay.

 

Not sure that's necessarily a different view. But if I travel, and I pay, then the railway gets more money. Simple as that.

 

I have a travel pass for the West Somerset, and although I always use it to obtain a ticket to travel I always donate cash (via the TTI or the envelope system) at the end of the day.

 

Deleted

 

Whether people choose to use their travel concessions or not, what is stated in the terms and conditions of membership should be honoured. If a member chooses to use their concession, please do not judge them any the lesser for doing so.

 

NOT an SVR point, but more generally. As costs go up, and we’re getting to the point where it’s almost become a truism that annual membership fees to some railways basically cover the cost of the magazine being produced and sent out… how do railways move forward and renegotiate that relationship with members - where the £35 has been swallowed on writing to the member, then the member turns up for their free ride?

you drop the travel privileges, and have some people howling blue murder, or drop the printed comms and have some other people kicking off.

fundamentally it would be good for more railways to be honest about what membership actually pays for before they talk about any benefits.

 

Too few railways are embracing the idea of e - membership to cut costs/subscriptions. There are folk who cling to wanting hard copy magazines but in reality those are usually read once & then discarded. If everything except that legally required to be posted was instead sent electronically the costs of membership could be considerably reduced. Better to keep the travel (and secondary spend) and ditch the paper & postage.

Or offer the alternatives with pricing to match.................

 

The travel concessions actually cost nothing, they are generally used at off peak times so there is no revenue lost to the railway and they may benefit from secondary spending. Three of the four locomotive owning groups I belong to now have an additional optional monthly subscription arrangement. I think this could work for railways too if they allowed the funds to be channelled where the subscriber desired. As an example you may ask for your money to be allocated to the overhaul of a locomotives of to the PW department. For most people paying say £10 a month does not break the bank and becomes unnoticed along with all the other bills.

 

This is the key point - too many people see the price of travel and value the concession at that amount. The reality is that it’s somewhere between that and zero, because in many (most?) cases the amount of travel by an individual member will be greater than it would otherwise have been without the concession.

The exception is when concessionary fares are at the expense of full fare passengers. That is an unusual scenario.


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A few years back the Talyllyn started to keep a record of members use of free travel. Pre Covid it entitled you to free travel on the TR and a limited of free trips on the FR. I was not privy to the information from memory I think it was found that there were indications that there were probably some abuse of membership with family members or those letting caravans passing around membership cards it was probably fairly. There were some who used the free travel fairly but I think there were often links to volunteers or past volunteers who people who supported the railway in other ways.

As long as somebody with a travel concession is not taking the place of a paying punter then I expect there generally will be a benefit to the railway. It is unrealistic to think that those who travel for free will pay full fair more than a couple of times a year, and whilst they may travel for free there is usually some secondary spend. Some who may have no original intention of volunteering may then do so, even if only in a small way, or they donate. Or kids and grandkids get introduced to the railway with regular rides and may volunteer.

My retired parents lived in the North West and every I would but them a membership of somewhere local or national trust membership. I would vary every couple of years and sometimes they would renew one of the memberships they had. One was Chester Zoo which I initially paid for when my kids were young as they love to visit the zoo but it is not that cheap a day out and I new my parents would be far less likely to take them if they had to pay each time. They kept their membership for many years as it meant they could pop in when ever they felt like for a few hours. Being elderly the did not want to spend all day at the zoo which is what they felt they would have needed to do if they paid each time. My parents benefitted by being able to visit whenever they felt like. The zoo benefited as they got the annual membership fee which they kept getting long after my parents would have paid for a day out their and each time they visited they would have at least a coffee but often stop for lunch in the gastro pub there. My kids although now young adults still want to visit the zoo every couple of years because of their love from the zoo from being taken as a kid by their grandparents. Last time I visited the zoo with my family my parents just met us for lunch in the gastro pub as they could get in for free. The zoo benefited to the extent of a couple of courses each, a glass of wine and a soft drink and a couple of coffees plus tip.

Ultimately it is about balance, yes some may abuse but the majority won't. You just need to ensure that what you offer is offer is attractive and is beneficial without encouraging too much abuse.

 

I suspect if you are swallowing up £35 on a magazine and free travel, then you are spending too much on your magazine and haven't structured your benefits very well ...

Checking this year's BRPS accounts (for 2023), the income was £169k. Expenditure was £80k, which left £89k surplus available for reinvestment in the railway. Of that £80k expenditure, £48k was on the magazine (quarterly, full colour, A4).

As for benefits - for life members they are very generous (primarily free unlimited 1st class travel, including galas). However, for annual members, all the benefits are structured in a way that generates a sale: effectively 1/2 price travel and 10% shop discount. Those are generous, but you have to buy something to get the benefit. A member buying a large number of half-price tickets over many visits is ultimately better for the railway than someone getting, say, one free ticket per year.

Tom

 

It is but it is also better for a railway to have a member who gets a free trip with some secondary spend over not having a member as they don't think the membership offers value and they do elsewhere. There is no wrong or right answer. It is down to each railway to decide what suits them.

On the TR free travel was originally offered as a thank you to those who supported the railway by volunteering. I expect in those days it was thought that those who joined did so because they might want to volunteer or if not they were unlikely frequently to travel to Tywyn to make use of.

It would be interesting to see in respect of numbers what percentage of members are linked to past or present volunteers. In my extended family probably six or so are are members but I am/was the only regular volunteer. My father would help out doing odd jobs like sorting stock and now I am pretty sure he still regularly donates. For that it would probably only be my parents who would have a fairly regular trip and each time they would probably have lunch or a coffee and a cake.

 

We have privileges with 6 railways currently and we also got a free trip on the West Somerset this year via my Erlestoke Manor Fund shareholding.
In all cases, we ensure we make use of the railway's catering facilities and spend in the shop, probably more than if we were paying full fare.
We are far more likely to visit a railway where we have discounted travel, as it makes the day seemingly a little bit more 'affordable'. The reality is the cost is probably spread more over the year and balanced by secondary spend, for the railway it is win, win as far as I can see.
Incidentally I also have a 'free' family WWT membership via a work perk. Same rules apply, we always eat at the reserve cafe and spend in the shop. Prior to getting this pass I'd never visited WWT reserves as we have always been RSPB members. Now we do 2 or 3 a year. Given their food prices, they do pretty well out of it!!