SVR General Discussion

I think that rather than searching for things that work for other places, each railway needs to examine its own strengths and weaknesses and evolve offers to the public that maximise the first and minimise the second. You can learn from others, but any kind of copying is likely doomed to fail. In my view this is what all successful railways have been doing.

 

I don’t think think the SVR and Ffestiniog/WH can be compared, the latter is in a very busy tourist area and gets visitors from all over the world with a lot of advertising in holiday brochures in conjunction with the other ‘Great Little Trains of Wales’. The Valley is in more of a day trippers area and relies a lot on local family groups, whenever I’ve been on the railway the West Midlands accent is very prominent. There maybe some merit in joint promotion with other local attractions such as the Black Country Museum, Bewdley Wildlife Park and Ironbridge. Visit one and get a discount voucher for the others, it needn’t be a lot, people just like to know they’ve got something off the price.

 

I do really wonder if this can really be the case. Is it seriously being suggested that the mood of the volunteers can actually put people off visiting? How do prospective visitors in for example Dudley receive the message that the SVR is not the place to visit? Is there some form of telepathy going on?

Or is visiting the SVR a somehow depressing experience (because of the negative vibes and aura) put out by the staff and therefore visitors wont want to make a return visit?

The issue that IMHO many heritage railways face is the seeming inability to reduce costs without adversely impacting the customer experience. The first choice seems to be to cut down the number of operating days and / or the frequency of service and / or running diesel instead of steam.

My personal view is that solely running diesel instead of steam will do a considerable amount of damage. Those who check in advance wont come at all and those who don't check in advance will be at least disappointed and possibly not return for a repeat visit. They may also engage in word of mouth negativity.

Cutting down the frequency is very tricky because no one can be sure how many prospective visitors simply turn up without checking the timetable. If there is a service within a reasonable amount of time (and who knows what that is) then they may wait and then travel. Having a distraction to while away the time (eg cafe / shop / museum) will certainly help retain the custom. If there isnt a service within a reasonable amount of time they will depart somewhat disappointed. Can customers be "educated" to plan their day / visit in such a way that the railway can run a lower level of frequency and yet still attract the higher level of patronage that a higher level of frequency would normally attract? Is mixed traction the best compromise in delivering higher frequency but at a lower cost than 2 steamers?

Does cutting the number of operating days actually work more against the railway than for it? Are the savings in variable cost greater than the loss of revenue?

Is the key having very strong marketing / communication that tells prospective passengers what the days of operation are and what the timetable is? If for example you are closed for February except for the 9 days of half term do you absolutely blitz social media to get this message across?

Do you have a consistent pricing message or is it knee jerk reaction?

If you participate in discount voucher schemes how do you assess whether these are to your advantage?

I note that upthread it was suggested that HRs were carrying 50% fresh air. If its a 5 carriage train cut it down to a 3 carriage train and fresh air is down at 10%. Simples. Except of course that is a complete nonsense as we all know. The point really is can you find the sweet spot in the schedule that balances resources deployed and passengers carried? Do you run an even headway throughout the day or can you slot in (a) bigger gaps, possibly at lunchtime, to save mileage? What is the trade off between saving say one round trip (coal, water and lubricants) or does it deliver a sub optimal experience?

 

Passenger numbers for the minimal service will tell you one thing but not much of the story really as there is nothing contemporary to compare with. If an enhanced service was run one day each week that might tell you something else - and not necessarily that the enhanced service should run on more days. It might though tell you whether or not the enhancement was worth running and therefore worth persevering with. (Enhanced = 2 steam + DMU/Diesel).

 

The problem is there is no "one size fits all" and I would argue not even "one size fits many".
Railways with similarities in location end up being different. So take "seaside railways as an example, we have Swanage, WSR, P&DSR, NNR and NYMR.
All have one end at the coast, but the WSR and NYMR are very long compared to the others. The NYMR also has Heartbeat and Harry Potter as sales points and a limited coastal service compared to the rest of the line (at least in previous years). P&DSR is more of a pure commercial operation, but like the NYMR with a NR connection.
So that leaves Swanage and the NNR as similar, both with some sort of NR connection (in Swanage case soon, but not every day of the week).
On a short line are people less likely to book in advance I do not know, my guess would be less. I do know one of the commercial staff here told me that the best days were when it was sunny in the morning early, clouded up around 11:30 and rained just around or after lunch. Looking to keep dry, people come off the beach to ride the train.Likewise would they want to be stuck waiting on the 16:30 if it was chucking it down?

 

I am not in anyway suggesting that the SVR copies a format from another railway, just because they are doing it. But it would be foolish to not look at what other lines are doing and if it is working for them see if can be adapted for use in the valley. Case in point the steam in lights format.

I don't think a 100% excursion format would work at the SVR, but many have said the low season timetable is now too sparse for hop on, hop off. The excursion format could be a solution here as it is far more flexible and you are selling more than just a train ticket.
The other option is to add value to existing services via cross sell, some examples I gave above - catering, different price points for higher end stock. The same service is therefore earning more money.
I believe we are now beyond the point of just running daily trains and hoping enough people will turn up to cover costs. Simple fact is costs have trebled and disposable income is in short supply.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. However, what would you prefer?

The FfWHR is in a strong, financially secure position. It is offering an extensive range of services this year, is actively building a brand-new steam engine, is actively recruiting staff, and is investing heavily in infrastructure projects (yes, Boston Lodge is supported by the NHLF grant but match funding is an element, and the railway has applied for permission for the new Beddgelert station). Contrast that to the SVR, which is offering a service that is a shadow of previous years (and, IMHO, likely to put people off visiting as it is so restrictive), has stopped locomotive overhauls and is making staff redundant. Fair enough, the scripted trips may not be to your taste, but they have put the FfWHR in very strong position and, as others have pointed out, this year's timetable offers a proper timetable with hop-on-hop-off options (which would have been available to you last year as a member...).

I know which I prefer.

 

For me, this is sums up precisely what is wrong with the SVR's offering.

First, people will be put off by diesels; aeverage Joe Public may not be able to distinguished between different classes of steam engine (except, perhaps, the obvious difference between tank and tender engines), but they certainly can distinguish between steam and diesels. What is the point in running a cheaper diesel if fewer people turn up to ride on the train?

Second, people are, IMHO, likely be put off by the odd timetable, and the huge gaps between the second and third trains. If you must run one steam and one diesel, at least do it in a way that means the trains are evenly spaced through the day!

FWIW. I have no desire to see the SVR fold. However, I am deeply concerned that the efforts being made to cut back are simply too drastic and will make things even worse.

 

IIRC The railway has already approached other tourist attractions in the area but they are not interested in joint ticketing.

 

If you're an FR member you must have read the mag. The rights and wrongs of the new business model have surely been debated an infinitum but at least the FR seems to holding it's own financially. The timetable was published early last year and it was made clear several times that hop on/hop off was available subject to availability. I've not heard of anybody, let alone a member, being denied travel, have you? You talk of things "changing" but it seems highly unlikely that things will ever go back to how they were.

 

Not quite, see upthread. No plans will be made for future overhauls until at least some of the current projects have completed. These include 4150, 82045, 13268 and 4085 ‘Dunrobin’, an external contract for Beamish Museum. Taw Valley will be having an intermediate from autumn, for around a year. “As the current projects progress, we will begin to look at the subsequent overhaul plan for steam locomotives. Past experience has taught us that running too many overhauls concurrently isn’t the most efficient way of managing these complex projects.”

 

As I understood it from the mag, you can’t buy a day ticket and hop on and off as you like, I thought you had to say which trains you wanted to hop on and off of? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood that though.
I accept things change and I’m quite happy to adjust my behaviour accordingly, however if the change diminishes my enjoyment then I will find alternative ways of spending my time. The same with mainline steam, I can afford to travel but now I can no longer lean out of the window I don’t enjoy it so I don’t travel on mainline tours.

 

Mate, we both know this about Gus, (being 14 years old and possibly getting into somewhat compromising positions in the dirt at Kidderminster whilst trying to fit a traction motor cover on 50031 with him springs to mind )
But I look at someone like @Johnb and if they’re so unhappy that they don’t want to contribute anymore but are willing to give time up for other pres projects there’s a massive question to be asked.
We need a beer in the taproom to discuss this my friend!

 

I can not say I am surprised. Joint ticketing invariably means the customer overall pays "a lower fare / entrance fee" per attraction and the attractions have to foot increased administration costs. One would like to think that these initiatives grow custom overall but actually proving that can be quite challenging.

However having said that these initiatives seem to work well when they are on a very professional footing which is well marketed, a large number of attractions included and the total value of the pass is quite high. See https://yorkpass.com/ for example.

 

Probably more important is a policy for each to publicise the whole gambit of related attractions than joint ticketing.

 

I thought more along the lines of a discount voucher, a bum on a seat paying less than the full fare is better than no bum at all

 

But how do you know that this is a "new bum" and not a "bum" who would have paid the full fare anyway?

Discount voucher schemes are all very well but being able to assess the net benefit is an essential ingredient.

 

Well as the railway reopens tomorrow I was thinking of taking a trip up to Highley. However there is no info
on the Severn Valley Live website on what loco or stock will be used and the main website is also silent on
the issue. I like to know these things before deciding. The timetable isn"t bad. Four steam turns from Kiddi
is better than the full line timetable. So come on SVR get your act together.