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SVR General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by threelinkdave, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. Dead Sheep

    Dead Sheep Member

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    Thank you for the information. The reference, "be the end of the year" , I am guessing the end of 2022.
     
  2. 80104

    80104 Member

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    Some excellent points.

    Two questions:

    (1) when you say emails were ignored, do you mean that there was no response (at all) or there was a response and it dismissed the points you made "out of hand"?

    (2) what radical changes do you suggest?

    One comment: if the "supporters" respond positively to all appeals then is it that surprising that "the board" is encouraged by this and eventually adopt a belief that the money would be forthcoming. If they adopted an alternative view (ie that the money would not be forthcoming) could / would the Board be accused of showing a lack of faith in the "supporters" ? I think this is quite a tricky situation and both views could be equally valid.

    What would be an informative exercise would be to compare the challenges faced, and the actions taken by SVR and compare them to the challenges faced, and actions taken by Swanage Railway.

    Some of the "common features" appear to be a collapse in pax numbers and consequentially revenue, salary burden (% of revenue), staff posts (are all these paid roles necessary) and taking on debt (loans) when there has been successful fund raising.

    Both railways appear to be following similar plans ie reducing operating days / service levels, substituting diesel for steam.

    Both have independently evaluated the situation and decided that the same course of action is the best solution. Only time will tell if this solution is the right one or both "boards" have made what could be business threatening decisions.
     
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  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Great post above , can't shy away from data . re the other matters again if you are comfortable then things should be said . Those at the sharp end should be given ideas and opportunities to improve
     
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    My history with the SVR is about the same as yours, joined in 1969 and have watched the men in suits take over in the last few years with increasing feeling of trepidation. I provoked a bit of a discussion on photo charters but that was just the final straw that decided me to cancel my membership. As there’s no market for my shares I will have to hang on to them
     
  5. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    the challenge is cut back to far and you run the risk of starting a spiral of further decline , passengers put off by poor timetables, further loss of revenue, loss of competency of crews, staff and volunteers . Any railway cutting back , feels like an admission of defeat on attracting passengers to the line which then across the movement questions where have things gone wrong . Why are marketing approaches no longer reaching day trippers and holiday makers in the way they used too . What does that say about national enthusiasm in heritage for example

    I was informed yesterday of major boardroom upheavals on two lines , I suspect others may well follow in the coming weeks and months
     
  6. zigzag

    zigzag New Member

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    Interesting post above re the level of debt and interest on that, also the staff numbers. I have thought that with the putting Santa tickets on sale so early and the cutbacks in the timetable (the wrong cutbacks imo) that cashflow could be a problem and the board/management are trying to get through to the high summer months when this should hopefully improve.
     
  7. zigzag

    zigzag New Member

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    Another point re online booking, its all well and good to have this, but railways should* be selling a hertiage experience, and that includes doing things the way they were, stepping back in time, an immersive experience, and that should include an Edmunson ticket. By all means show your online booking at the booking office, but then you are given an Edmunson. You cannot be a heritage experience which allows tickets to be shown on a mobile phone.

    * most railways do not make anywhere near enough effort to be a truly hertage experience, they are merely train rides with steam power. This is an area which could and should be developed much more, heritage sells, but railways mostly dont sell it enough.
     
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  8. Paul Grant

    Paul Grant Well-Known Member

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    Bring back smog and rickets and the British Rail sandwich!
     
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  9. brennan

    brennan Member

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    To summarise ; if the directors ( the clue is in the title) don't take urgent action to reduce debt and running costs then a Llangollen situation will follow and the men in suits will be organising a fire sale.

    I wonder how many members of heritage railway boards actually understand their responsibilities?
     
  10. jamesd

    jamesd Member

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    Isn’t the answer here to just have the smallest locos possible that are capable of running all trains? So in the SVR’s case you’d use the panniers, small prairie, Ivatt 2MT, Jinty etc Everything else can just be sent to the engine house.
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Well, that raises the next question - how do you get from where you are to where you want to be? A change in loco policy of that kind would realistically take five years to really start to be noticeable in which locos were actually available.

    Tom
     
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  12. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Isn’t the answer to have the optimum mix of small and medium locos that are capable of running all trains?

    Small locos are limited to 250 tons so can't haul, say, 8 Mk1s or 6 plus diners which are common on the SVR. You stand to have to run two locos with shorter trains (passenger or separate diner, for example).

    In any case all but 7714 require capital expenditure to restore them before use. You have a long-term fleet of ~8 locos capable of hauling 350 tons either in (or shortly to be in) traffic. Everything else is moot for the next few years.
     
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  13. olly5764

    olly5764 Well-Known Member

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    Small locos being limited to 6 coaches is something of our own making. While 8 coach trains knocked 46443 about, and 4566 can be tight for water capacity, there is absolutely no reason why 5764, 7714 or 1501 can't handle 8 coaches.
     
  14. 3ABescot

    3ABescot Member

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    And big impressive locos draw the crowds. I doubt the overall economics of an all-small engine policy would be beneficial.
     
  15. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

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    I emailed Mr Durnin last week, as having been asked to sit in on one of the Shareholder sessions I’d been unable to attend the AGM and had never heard anything further.

    His reply: his report has been provided to the SVR for the AGM in June 2022. If I wished to see it I needed to contact the SVR direct, as his work had ended with the railway direct.

    I wonder why the report hasn’t been shared amongst shareholders? The session I sat in on was very open/honest, and some of the fellow shareholders had been members longer than I’ve been alive!
     
  16. oldmrheath

    oldmrheath Well-Known Member

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    I would argue it's not just about drawing the crowds, it's also about drawing the support. Locos with strong supporting groups who help fund overhauls or provide volunteer input, or locos of whatever size attracting legacies should be taken into consideration for the overall economics.

    Jon
     
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  17. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for pointing out this interesting archive of past SVR timetables. As I thought, there is precedent for SVR low-season timetables based on two train-sets, making four departures from each end of the line. The difference is that, in the old timetables, departures were evenly spread through the day. For example in 1990, "two engines in steam" covered four departures each way between 11.40am and 4.35pm, with service gaps of 1½ to 1¾ hrs. Whereas the 2023 Apr-Jun timetable will have two trains from Kidderminster at 10.30 and 11.15, followed by a 3-hr gap. From my point of view, that's ghastly, but SVR managers must have judged that it best suits their current customer flow. Time will tell how well it works.

    A few thoughts on the comments in some posts that SVR needs to drastically cut its staff payroll:
    (1) Some key duties will need to be covered if the railway is to operate safely and efficiently. It may not always be possible to find suitably qualified volunteers to undertake all tasks, in which case paid staff will be essential, although possibly part-time in some cases.
    (2) Are any of the paid staff undertaking contract work for external customers - loco works, carriage works or wherever? So long as such work is profitable, it is an income stream for the SVR, which it presumably would not wish to lose.
    (3) In any staff reduction exercise, the costs of redundancy payments must be factored into the calculations.
     
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  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I do wonder why the SVR needs an Executive Chef, it’s something I’ve never quite understood.
    It’s never exactly been Michelin starred food has it?
     
  19. brennan

    brennan Member

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    Why does the NYMR need a "Director of Corporate Services"? This is another example of the fallacy that the larger heritage railways are profitable organisations ( Another form of "big chufferitis"?). They are not in any accepted sense. You can't run a farm unless you have a great affinity with agriculture, the same principle applies to a heritage railway. The managers have to understand the business and what motivates the volunteers.
     
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  20. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    Payroll, health and safety, customer service, catering, data protection, social media, e-commerce, grant applications, resource management. The list of things a multi million pound business needs to be on top of, and roles where an interest in heritage railways is useful but by no means essential, is significant.

    Just like a farmer needs a vet and an accountant and perhaps an agent or marketing expert and a milk processor or a slaughterhouse and so on.

    Simon
     

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