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Surviving nineteenth century standard gauge locomotives

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Jamessquared, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    In that case you could include the two Lee Moor Tramway Pecketts (4'6" gauge). 783/4 of 1899
     
  2. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Only looking briefly via phone so may have missed it but has Shannon at Didcot been discussed?
     
  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yes - in my original list.

    Tom
     
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  4. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    It might be useful to separate out locomotives large enough to haul service trains from the little shunters, especially the 0-4-0s and industrials.

    If part of the object of the exercise is to inform future policy then including only those large enough to perform traffic duties in the present might be more meaningful.

    Perhaps also fair to say that there were fewer major changes in configuration in the small shunters after say 1890 than there were in locomotives for large service trains.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  5. mdewell

    mdewell Member

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    Here is a csv list of 138 such locos extracted from the Locomotives Database at http://www.heritage-railways.com/locosdb/locos.php
    (I'll admit I cheated as there is no way to generate such a list from the website, so I exported from the behind the scenes database)

    Original Company,Loco No,Loco Name,Wheels,Year Built
    , ,Puffing Billy,0-4-0,1813
    ,,Wylam Dilly,0-4-0,1813
    , ,Hetton Loco,0-4-0,1822
    , ,Killingworth Billy,0-4-0,1826
    L&M, ,Rocket,0-2-2,1829
    L&M, ,Sans Pareil,0-2-2,1829
    ,,Agenoria,0-4-0,1829
    Cant, ,Invicta,0-4-0,1830
    L&M, ,Lion,0-4-2,1838
    LNWR,1868 *49,Columbine,2-2-2,1845
    S&DR,25,Derwent,0-6-0,1845
    FR,3,Coppernob,0-4-0,1846
    LNWR,3020,Cornwall,2-2-2,1847
    ,34 *252, ,0-4-0,1855
    ,5,Shannon,0-4-0WT,1857
    , ,Ellesmere,0-4-0WT,1861
    FR,20,,0-4-0,1863
    LNWR,*1439 3042, ,0-4-0ST,1865
    ,5, ,0-4-0ST,1865
    FR,25, ,0-4-0ST,1865
    Met,23, ,4-4-0T,1866
    MR,*158 20002, ,2-4-0,1866
    NER,66,Aerolite,2-2-4T,1869
    ,1,Alderman / Lord Mayor,0-4-0WT,1870
    GNR,1, ,4-2-2,1870
    , ,Seaham Colliery No 21,0-4-0VB,1870
    , ,Coffee Pot,0-4-0VB,1871
    LBSC,72 *672 B636 2636 32636,Fenchurch,0-6-0T,1872
    , , ,0-4-0GT,1872
    LBSC,70 *32670,Poplar Bodiam,0-6-0T,1872
    , ,Wellington,0-4-0ST,1873
    ,17,Coffee Pot,0-4-0VB,1873
    ,,Bellerophon,0-6-0WT,1874
    LSWR,298 3298 *30587, ,2-4-0WT,1874
    ,2,Bauxite,0-4-0ST,1874
    ,3, ,0-6-0ST,1874
    NER,1275, ,0-6-0,1874
    LSWR,314 *30585, ,2-4-0WT,1874
    LBSC,55,Stepney,0-6-0T,1875
    NER,910, ,2-4-0,1875
    LBSC,*662 32662,Martello,0-6-0T,1875
    LBSC,*10 32650,Sutton,0-6-0T,1876
    GER,229, ,0-4-0ST,1876
    LBSC,w8,Freshwater,0-6-0T,1876
    ,13,Kelton Fell,0-4-0ST,1876
    LBSC,*2 110 32110,Cannock Wood / Yarmouth,0-6-0T,1877
    ,3,Baxter,0-4-0T,1877
    ,4,Sharpthorn,0-6-0ST,1877
    ,18, ,0-4-0ST,1877
    , ,Minnie,0-6-0ST,1878
    ,1378 2,Margaret,0-6-0ST,1878
    LBSC,W11 *32640,Newport,0-6-0T,1878
    , , ,0-4-0ST,1879
    , ,Haydock,0-6-0T,1879
    LBSC,78 678 2678 *32678,Knowle,0-6-0T,1880
    NLR,76 116 2650 7505 *27505 58850, ,0-6-0T,1880
    MR,1708 *41708, ,0-6-0T,1880
    LBSC,82,Boxhill,0-6-0T,1880
    LYR,*752 11456, ,0-6-0ST,1881
    ,11,Alfred Paget,0-4-0ST,1882
    ,,Aldwyth,0-6-0ST,1882
    LBSC,82 *214,Gladstone,0-4-2,1882
    , ,Hodbarrow,0-4-0ST,1882
    ,5, ,0-6-0PT,1883
    , ,Vigilant,0-4-0ST,1883
    ,3,Enterprise,0-4-0ST,1884
    LSWR,*488 30583, ,4-4-2T,1885
    Mers,5,Cecil Raikes,0-6-4T,1885
    ,2,John Bull,0-4-0VB,1885
    ,15,Sheepbridge No.15,0-6-0ST,1885
    NER,1463, ,2-4-0,1885
    , , ,0-4-0VB,1886
    CR,*123 14010, ,4-2-2,1886
    ,6,,0-4-0ST,1886
    ,E1, ,2-4-0CT,1887
    LYR,*957 52044, ,0-6-0,1887
    , ,City of Aberdeen,0-4-0ST,1887
    NBR,*42 9042 68095, ,0-4-0ST,1887
    , ,Lindsay,0-6-0ST,1887
    ,2368, ,0-4-0GT,1888
    LNWR,*1054 7799 58926, ,0-6-2T,1888
    NER,876 5033 *65033, ,0-6-0,1889
    LYR,1008, ,2-4-2T,1889
    , ,Toby,0-4-0VB,1890
    C&SL,13, ,4wE,1890
    , ,Snipey,0-4-0CT,1890
    , ,The Welshman,0-6-0ST,1890
    , ,Lucy,0-4-0VB,1890
    , ,Swanscombe,0-4-0ST,1891
    LSWR,24,Calbourne,0-4-4T,1891
    NER,1310, ,0-4-0T,1891
    , ,Twizell,0-6-0T,1891
    NBR,673 *65243,Maude,0-6-0,1891
    , ,Sir Berkeley,0-6-0ST,1891
    ,1, ,0-4-0WT,1892
    LNWR,*790 5031,Hardwicke,2-4-0,1892
    , ,Lord Mayor,0-4-0ST,1893
    LSWR,563, ,4-4-0,1893
    LSWR,102 30102,Granville,0-4-0T,1893
    NER,1621, ,4-4-0,1893
    LSWR,96,Normandy Corrall Queen,0-4-0T,1893
    S&MR,1,Gazelle,0-4-2WT,1893
    , ,Gladys,0-4-0ST,1894
    ,61,,0-4-0ST,1894
    HR,*103 17916, ,4-6-0,1894
    GER,490 62785, ,2-4-0,1894
    ,4,Oswald,0-4-0ST,1894
    , ,Sydenham,0-4-0GT,1895
    , ,Dunrobin,0-4-4T,1895
    DSB,385, ,0-4-0WT,1895
    ,35,Rhiwnant,0-6-0ST,1895
    SECR,*65 1065 31065, ,0-6-0,1896
    ,,Bear,0-4-0ST,1896
    LYR,1300 12322 *52322, ,0-6-0,1896
    ,25, ,0-4-0ST,1896
    , ,Kinlet,0-6-0ST,1896
    , ,Firefly,0-4-0ST,1896
    ,2,Bon-Accord,0-4-0ST,1897
    LSWR,245 30245, ,0-4-4T,1897
    GWR,1340,Trojan,0-4-0ST,1897
    TVR,*28 450 WD205 67,Gordon,0-6-2T,1897
    MR,673, ,4-2-2,1897
    GWR,2516, ,0-6-0,1897
    LBSC,*473 2473 32473,Birch Grove,0-6-2T,1898
    GNR,*990 3990,Henry Oakley,4-4-2,1898
    ,5 *1338, ,0-4-0ST,1898
    ,11, ,0-4-0ST,1898
    , ,The Lady Armaghdale,0-6-0T,1898
    ,75S, ,4wE,1898
    Met,1 44, ,0-4-4T,1898
    ,3, ,0-4-0WT,1898
    ,50,Commander B.,0-4-0ST,1899
    , ,Daphne,0-4-0ST,1899
    , ,Hawarden,0-4-0ST,1899
    GNR,1247 4247 8846 *68846, ,0-6-0ST,1899
    TVR,*85 426, ,0-6-2T,1899
    CR,828 17566 *57566, ,0-6-0,1899
    LSWR,120 *30120, ,4-4-0,1899
     
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  6. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    0-2-2 Count 2
    0-4-0 Count 9
    0-4-0VB Count 7
    0-4-0T Count 45
    0-4-2 Count 2
    0-4-2T Count 1
    0-4-4T Count 4
    2-4-0 Count 5
    4-4-0 Count 3
    4-6-0 Count 1
    2-2-2 Count 2
    4-2-2 Count 3
    4-4-2 Count 1
    0-6-0 Count 9
    0-6-0T Count 30
    0-6-2T Count 4
    0-6-4T Count 1
    2-2-4T Count 1
    2-4-0T Count 3
    2-4-2T Count 1
    4-4-0T Count 1
    4-4-2T Count 1
    4wE Count 2
    Grand Count 138

    Interesting just how many are 4 wheeled tanks. The big gap, I suppose, is the once ubiquitous 2-2-2- passenger locomotive. How ironic that both survivors are ex LNWR, and so is the one current new build of the type.
     
  7. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    36.jpg

    Again not qualifying as 5'3" gauge but almost ignored at Cork Station , this is a National Treasure
     
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  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Anybody have any idea as to which of these machines are currently (end of July 2016) operable?

    Paul H
     
  9. Courier

    Courier New Member

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  10. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    When I read the title of the thread, I thought it was going to be another of those tales from the footplate threads :)
     
  11. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    It does all rather suggest that the Bloomer replica is rather more important to complete than yet another slight variation on Mr Churchward's theme, or a second P2 (or even a first P2).
    And yet... no progress for over a decade. And so substantially begun, too.
    From the 19th there are whole design lineages almost unrepresented (e.g. Crewe type).
     
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  12. estwdjhn

    estwdjhn Member

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    I think the reason for the huge rate of survival of 0-4-0T engines compared to anything else is simple. By the 1870s the basic design of a four coupled shunter was about as far advanced as it was ever going to get, and so they tended to soldier on in industry (either built as industrials, or sold second hand into industry) without ever really being superceded.
    Meanwhile the 2-2-2 express locos were almost useless except on fast passenger work - so once bigger more powerful express locos came along, there was nowhere for them to go other than the scrap line.
     
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  13. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Member

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    You said standard gauge, 5'3" is Irish standard gauge, I think that counts...
     
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  14. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    I can't find much about this GS&WR No 36 on the internet apart from photos and a reference to GS&WR No 36 being ordered to be photographed by H.A. Ivatt when cut up at Inchicore in 1886, having been withdrawn from service in 1872.

    Possibly this photo? http://mikemorant.smugmug.com/keyword/gswr/i-59TFsgW/A

    So is the plinthed loco a replica?
     
  15. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    certainly not. Click on the caption for a little more info
     
  16. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    Agreed. It underlines the value of Firefly, as a replica. I know it's broad gauge, but as a representative of the type...
     
  17. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    Ah, needed a PC to view the caption which doesn't appear on my phone. Thanks. Looks like it got a reprieve in the 1880s, I wonder if that was due to Ivatt?
     
  18. Reading General

    Reading General Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the bit about attending the 1925 celebrations!
     
  19. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    The big problem with a single driver is always going to be building one with enough TE to haul a viable commercial load, while still maintaining adhesion. Particularly because those railways that also have an interest in suitable nineteenth century carriages by coincidence tend to have somewhat severe gradients. In addition, there is the problem that most late-Victorian carriages, as typically restored with modern steel underframes, have a tare weight somewhere in the region of 12 tons per carriage, whereas about 7-8 tons per carriage was more typical in the 1850s / 1860s. That makes it hard to pull a viable load with a 25 ton 5-6,000lbf TE single driver locomotive.

    A thirty five ton 2-4-0 with, say, 10-12,000lb TE, on the other hand, is a much more viable possibility...

    Tom
     
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  20. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    That would make a nice project. Do you have a particular example in mind? Something by Joseph Beattie perhaps?
     

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